Man in skirt wins Eurovision

[crfriend]

If you find the ManBox constraining, then there are two options: (1) try to make the box bigger; (2) step outside the box. Which you choose is up to you: clearly a lot of people here are much happier with option (1). It might be better if you didn't have to choose - if it was generally accepted that the ManBox (and the WomanBox) can be bigger than you had imagined, then people might not feel obliged to step into the "non-binary zone".

The problem here is that the "Man Box" has been changing character over time from external tampering. If one considers the scope of the "Man Box" from a half-century ago, one will clearly see the difference between then and now where the "Man Box" is a code of machismo, not of masculinity. Over time, the noose has been tightening around our necks, and because of all the other noise around us we men mostly managed to miss the fact. However, that does not change the fact that the landscape available to men has changed radically in 50 years -- and not for the better.

Thus, I advocate for scrapping the "Macho Box" altogether and replacing it with the old-school "Man Box" from the 1960s and 1970s when men were allowed to be men. You know, dads, loving partners, doting grandparents, competent at what they did, and generally behaving with decent manners to those around them. To be ready to solve problems if they could contribute, and have the wisdom to stay out of the way if they couldn't, thus not becoming part of the problem. And with an occasional bit of derring-do.

At the sceptical level, I regard much of the "LGBTQWTF", NB, "trans-*", &c noise as just that -- noise, and a vain search for the escape from the hopelessness of machismo. Thus, I cringe each and every time we create yet another "box" to trap men in. We -- of all people -- should know better.

Break the boundary. Forcefully state, "I am not a macho poser, I am a MAN, I am proud of that, and I've got the tools and skills to prove it. If you don't like that, or are scared by it, then stuff it in your ear." Ditto, "If you don't like my attire, that's your issue. At least that comes off at the end of the day. Your baggage doesn't."

[Spirou003]

Edit in blue

@Barley: Please give me a proof that as a skirted man I can get in a romantic relationship with a woman.This will always get the priority over skirt
I mean, as far as I know, people on board are either alone, either revealed their will to wear skirt after they're already in a stable relationship. Exception for one member (I don't remember his name) who told once he did date a woman, she knew about his skirt wearing, and they're now together (not sure whether or not they're married). I'm not yet (I hope "yet") in any relationship, and have today not any woman in my social circle, so what women think of me matters especially when it comes to genders, LGBT and related things.

Out of that, I think I'm one of the best placed on this board to know that there's always an obstacle (I wrote a rant about it on Wednesday evening, that I finally kept for myself). In five years, I've not even had 30 occasions to go out skirted. And the "skirt confidence" is only playing a minor role in my tendancy to choose trousers over skirt. I'll say, only 10-20 times, compared to tens (hundred?) of missed occasions for plenties of other various reasons.

[crfriend]

I think I'm qualified to address Spiriou's comment as I've been in both situations.

The first one was where the desire to wear skirts finally "caught up with me" after years and I gave it a try, much to the surprise of my (now) late ex-. The net result of that, whilst her mind was still intact, was entirely positive once she realised that other facets of me were not going to change. That ended in 2015 following what was likely a medical emergency.

In the intervening decade, I've not had one lick of success of attracting a romantic partner. I've got more female acquaintances than one can shake a stick at, but not a one of them is interested in me romantically, and that's depressing as all get-out because I've got a whole lot to offer.

So, given the current state of what passes for "society" I have resigned myself to a solo flight from here on out. This will eventually involve "impact with terrain"; whether that is "controlled" or "uncontrolled" depends upon circumstance. But it's going to be lonely.

[Grok]

At 67 years of age, I have come to accept that some life goals are now out of reach. Never had any (romantic) luck with women, and so I have had no children, nor will I have grand children. I finally gave up on trying to attract romantic partner; my attempts were futile. It was a relief when I finally gave up.

[STEVIE]

Didn't see it and not heard the song.
However, The Eurovision Song Contest, was it the song, the costume, the act or simply not another country whose government has made them persona non-grata.
As for the binary/non etc etc, FFS let that go, it causes trouble and solves nothing for anyone.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

Edit in blue

@Barley: Please give me a proof that as a skirted man I can get in a romantic relationship with a woman.This will always get the priority over skirt
I mean, as far as I know, people on board are either alone, either revealed their will to wear skirt after they're already in a stable relationship. Exception for one member (I don't remember his name) who told once he did date a woman, she knew about his skirt wearing, and they're now together (not sure whether or not they're married). I'm not yet (I hope "yet") in any relationship, and have today not any woman in my social circle, so what women think of me matters especially when it comes to genders, LGBT and related things.

Out of that, I think I'm one of the best placed on this board to know that there's always an obstacle (I wrote a rant about it on Wednesday evening, that I finally kept for myself). In five years, I've not even had 30 occasions to go out skirted. And the "skirt confidence" is only playing a minor role in my tendancy to choose trousers over skirt. I'll say, only 10-20 times, compared to tens (hundred?) of missed occasions for plenties of other various reasons.

Spirou003 you didn't make it clear in the post that I replied to that you are looking for a partner.
You are right, wear a skirt and you might as well not bother. The situation for single MIS is dire.
If I was determined to wear a skirt and get a date, I would probably try and online dating app. That has its own risks.
If you want a date with a women you will have to choose between women and skirts. Once you have her, tell her within a few dates. Give her a chance to get to know you. Tell her it's not a gender thing. At least then she won't feel like you've kept a dark secret from her.
Good luck.
Edit
If you do that, you will be in the same position as every MIS here. That is, every MIS here with a female partner has had 'the chat'. Make sure she is fine with it and won't try and change you or thinks you will grow out of it.
If you survive that then you have found someone who finds you attractive and likes you, for you.

[shadowfax]

This was my Eurovision entry!

Great outfit!
Looks like you were at the pub, Howard?
If so, I admire your bravery.

[howardfh]

This was my Eurovision entry!

Great outfit!
Looks like you were at the pub, Howard?
If so, I admire your bravery.

Certainly was down the pub! my mate beat me 6 - 0 at pool, so my performance was worse that the UK's!

[Ray]

I told my girlfriend about my skirt wearing on our first date ( I didn’t think of it as a date, as I didn’t fancy her then). I also showed her my opaque tights under my suit.

She’s now my wife of 12 years. I still wear skirts and tights.

[STEVIE]

She’s now my wife of 12 years. I still wear skirts and tights.

Ray,
That makes your wife a very special person indeed!
Try persuading her to visit the cafe.
Perhaps both of you might consider joining us in Newcastle in September too.
Steve.