Men's? Unisex? Or Women's?

[Stu]

We are seeing the expensive fashion houses have been offering skirts specifically for men for some years, but tend to have an odd look, offered at extremely high prices, aimed at wealthy metropolitans and they haven't caught on as mainstream. More recently, we have seen a few High Street brands like Adidas and Asos dipping their toes in the skirts-for-men water by offering skirts as unisex - aimed very much at the younger market. I am guessing these haven't caught on as mainstream either, given the fact that they are now selling them off highly discounted and don't seem to be repeating this experiment.

The advantage of skirts made for men is that they can be designed for the male frame, and that those who wear them cannot be accused of wearing their wife's clothes. The advantage of unsex is that the manufacturer/retailer effectively doubles the potential market and, let's be honest, a garment as basic as a skirt should always be available for both sexes. The drawback with unisex is that they will probably be bought and worn by women 95% of the time, so they are effectively womenswear. I saw how that works with the childrenswear outlet primary.com where they claim their garments are all unisex and, although boys are seen modelling skirts and dresses, the customer reviews all say how much the buyer's daughter/grand daughter etc loves the garment - i.e. they are being bought only for girls.

Having regard to these facts, I am assuming that most on here buy and wear women's skirts which, if chosen wisely, are sensibly styled, can fit perfectly well and are offered at reasonable prices. Or am I wrong? In any case, how do others on here see the future of men's skirts? Will they continue to be a niche product? If they go mainstream, will they be expressly for men - or will they be unisex?

Or will we have to make do with buying ourselves women's garments.

[r.m.anderson]

Very keen observation Stu


I have yet to find or buy any skirt/skort labeled - MEN'S.
I don't buy or have a hankering for fashion skirts pencil calf or ankle.
Dresses are not my forte.
My wardrobe consists of sports - skater "A" frame pleated designs.
Skorts are also in the mix here some with the inner liner shorts removed.
That and a host of kilts to boot.
I like my skirts to be anywhere from 14-18 inches (thigh to just above the knee).

I don't see many (heck any) skirted men - but then it is winter and except for
the kilted winter carnival marching bands or funeral aspects skirts/kilts
just aren't the norm.
Yes I wear tights or leggings to ward off the weather from ageing my skin worse
than it already is. Colors - black nominally with other muted darker shades.
The pastels and lights wait until winter edges into spring.
When spring blossoms into summer - the serious short stuff is strutted and
hi ankle/calf length sox enter the scene.

Getting back on topic "Men's? Unisex? Women's? skirted wear - - -
I live within a couple of miles of the largest retail mall*** in America -
The Mall of America
*** largest retail store/mall in terms of retail merchants - there are larger
malls but that includes their amusement park - more amusement park less stores.
With that noted I have yet to find any skirts for men - - -
In a space of 2 blocks (N-S) by 5 blocks (E-W) 3 stories high some 400+ stores.
Guys you will just have to cross that aisle and look yonder in that undefined
area with mysterious sizing and hope that your measurement requirements are
not out of range ! Or at least pray that there is enough stretchiness play room
to accommodate your different hour glass shape.

Yes the revolution has started (back with the inception of the SkirtCafe) and
progress is at a snail/turtle paced unlike the women's trouser/pants movement.

It is only a matter of time - - - - -

[new2skirts]

We are seeing the expensive fashion houses have been offering skirts specifically for men for some years, but tend to have an odd look, offered at extremely high prices, aimed at wealthy metropolitans and they haven't caught on as mainstream. More recently, we have seen a few High Street brands like Adidas and Asos dipping their toes in the skirts-for-men water by offering skirts as unisex - aimed very much at the younger market. I am guessing these haven't caught on as mainstream either, given the fact that they are now selling them off highly discounted and don't seem to be repeating this experiment.

The advantage of skirts made for men is that they can be designed for the male frame, and that those who wear them cannot be accused of wearing their wife's clothes. The advantage of unsex is that the manufacturer/retailer effectively doubles the potential market and, let's be honest, a garment as basic as a skirt should always be available for both sexes. The drawback with unisex is that they will probably be bought and worn by women 95% of the time, so they are effectively womenswear. I saw how that works with the childrenswear outlet primary.com where they claim their garments are all unisex and, although boys are seen modelling skirts and dresses, the customer reviews all say how much the buyer's daughter/grand daughter etc loves the garment - i.e. they are being bought only for girls.

Having regard to these facts, I am assuming that most on here buy and wear women's skirts which, if chosen wisely, are sensibly styled, can fit perfectly well and are offered at reasonable prices. Or am I wrong? In any case, how do others on here see the future of men's skirts? Will they continue to be a niche product? If they go mainstream, will they be expressly for men - or will they be unisex?

Or will we have to make do with buying ourselves women's garments.

I think men's skirts (apart from traditional kilts or utility kilts) will keep high prices as they might stay a niche product for years... all women's skirts are poorly sized so sometimes it's guess work (sat in a tartan pencil skirt which claims to be size 10 but is tighter than other size 10's in my wardrobe ) where other 10's may be like a tent or too loose at the waistband... but at least you've not spent $$$ on it. Unless you worry for what side the front zip does up on a jeans skirt, it doesn't matter what side of the aisle it comes from.

Most men would buy a pair of jeans and then keep them for years, as the shopping experience doesn't hold the same appeal as for women who could spend hours in a shopping mall. Most guys are like, get to the shop, buy whatever the thing is, then get out... unless it's something specific like sneakers (perhaps within a range of Air Max trainers may take time, or a certain type of coat, or a business suit)... so if skirts made the mainstream, may shop in a similar fashion. Which is why online shopping offers so much more. Women may pinch a mens skirt the same way they pinch jeans or even coats

May be down to the Instagrammers and celebs to push the trend more, but some skirts may not have the same impact as Brad Pitt a few years ago, or Mark Bryan the model / engineer

The likes of A$AP Rocky, in a relationship with Rihanna, may influence more as it's a regular straight guy rocking a skirt as there's still the typical misconceptions amongst men and women as to why one is wearing something not traditional (and damn expensive) as a kilt, and the usual comments are made... there's some progress, some may glance twice then go back to whatever they were doing... might become more practical for hotter summers than shorts, so who knows?

[Coder]

In any case, how do others on here see the future of men's skirts? Will they continue to be a niche product? If they go mainstream, will they be expressly for men - or will they be unisex?

Or will we have to make do with buying ourselves women's garments.

I think they will start out as unisex, and one day become common men's wear, but the latter is going to take years.

I have five unisex/men's skirts: an amerikilt, three skirtcraft skirts, and the unisex pleated skirt Nordstrom was selling. I've worn the first four - and wearing them doesn't feel any different, really, from a women's skirt.

My biggest concern I have with a "men's skirt" sold as such is it will be boring. Just look at men's tops - very few variations from the regular cuts, rarely any fun details (buttons along the shoulder, asymmetrical hems, rounded hems). Men's pants - well the same thing - you get a few variations, a small range of colors... the list goes on. Some of us want variety, love the textures and colors offered on the other side of the aisle - and unfortunately those variations will never be designed - and the boldest of choices will be muted variants.

[Mouse]

My biggest concern I have with a "men's skirt" sold as such is it will be boring. Just look at men's tops - very few variations from the regular cuts, rarely any fun details (buttons along the shoulder, asymmetrical hems, rounded hems). Men's pants - well the same thing - you get a few variations, a small range of colors... the list goes on. Some of us want variety, love the textures and colors offered on the other side of the aisle - and unfortunately those variations will never be designed - and the boldest of choices will be muted variants.

I find the male skirt normally has two problems. They are expensive and boring. The Unisex skirts are similar. However both are useful in the steps from kilts to skirts. Also on days when confidence is in short supply, a muted colour unisex skirt or utility kilt keeps the skirted life on track.
My other source of male skirts are those that I have made my self. Even if I have started with a pattern with pictures of women in the front, it is totally possible to make it for me. Bigger pockets, colours I want, features like large belt loops etc can get you just what you desire. Sewing is like woodwork, it is all about getting the correct power tools! Then getting the measurements correct and understanding how to connect the pieces together.
The other way of seeing this is to NOT to see the sectioning that the retail industry wants you to see. There is a range of clothes made to cover a human body. Human bodies come in all shapes and sizes. I have a shape and size which I know. I then select clothes that fit me and I think look good on me. Doing this online is much easier than in real shops of course.

[STEVIE]

The other way of seeing this is to NOT to see the sectioning that the retail industry wants you to see. There is a range of clothes made to cover a human body. Human bodies come in all shapes and sizes. I have a shape and size which I know. I then select clothes that fit me and I think look good on me. Doing this online is much easier than in real shops of course.

Only point that I disagree with here Mouse, is the last one.
If you mean "easier" in terms of convenience, perhaps, but otherwise going to a bricks and mortar, real life establishment is the most reliable method of finding suitable garments there is.
Personally, I actively enjoy the buzz of "retail therapy", the search, the find and final reward for the effort.
I also have the satisfaction of knowing that it is not just the so called celebs and influencers who are involved in bringing about change.
I see it as grass roots activism for men in skirts by taking the activity openly into the retail and public domains.
As for unisex skirts, for mass retail purposes, they have proved to be an abject failure and businesses want profit, strange though that seems to some folks.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

There's no need develop mens skirts.
All that needs to be done is to take down the men's dept sign and the women's dept sign and mix the clothes together ie trousers, dresses jumpers etc.

You might say the women's form is different from mens and needs a different fit. This is a massive generalisation. I have snake hips which makes buying skirts or trousers a challenge. My answer for trousers is a belt, everytime. I have a beautiful skirt by Noa Noa, will it stay up? No way! I've had belt hoops fitted and now it's just fine.
My son has a bigger bum and he wears my trousers. My wife is endowed (I hope she does not read this) with a big bum and never used to wear skirts, because her thighs rub. I bought her some cycling shorts and she hasn't looked back - skirts all the way! And some jeans .
Even with my thin hips, skirts still fit me as well as trousers. I have learned a few tips along the way:
1. Marks and Spencer sizes are a bit small for me and can vary. I definitely need size 16, don't even look at 14.
2. Next is a bit bigger and a 14 will fit with a little patience and stretching.
3. Monsoon is bigger and 16 can be a bit loose 14 a bit tight.
Mostly I have various makes of ebay specials. I can buy anything and send it into the charity shop if its cheap. More expensive and I won't buy unless they have laid a tape on the skirt.

All This comes to mind becuase of my pre-skirt shorts (I've never really liked trousers). They hang so low that make my legs look really short or the cursed builders bum.

Is there any perfect form? Is the generalisation of clothes needed? Can anyone give me a reason why the mens/womens dept cannot be done away with? The retailers would sell more clothes if they did?

[Stu]

There's no need develop mens skirts.
...
Even with my thin hips, skirts still fit me as well as trousers. I have learned a few tips along the way:
1. Marks and Spencer sizes are a bit small for me and can vary. I definitely need size 16, don't even look at 14.
2. Next is a bit bigger and a 14 will fit with a little patience and stretching.
3. Monsoon is bigger and 16 can be a bit loose 14 a bit tight.

I agree that we can manage without skirts expressly made for men - with one exception. Skirts are just about the simplest garment there is as they are in reality just a cloth tube. In an ideal world, basic skirts including denim, cargo, corduroy, and plainer skirts, would all be marketed as unisex, along with simple pinafores. I am happy to leave the lace and frills for the ladies as signifiers of femininity. The exception, though, would be highly tailored and uniform skirts, especially straight/pencil skirts, where I think they look better where they are cut specifically for the body shape and where the normal male bulge would interrupt the line.

I agree about Marks and Spencer, but I have found if you buy a garment from them with even a small amount of stretch, the usual size fits well. The problem lately with Marks and Spencer is that their skirt prices have shot up! I bought a plain denim skirt from them - bog standard - about 18 months ago and it is still going strong. It cost me £10. A near-identical one is now £35. That's ridiculous. Very occasionally, you can strike gold at H&M and theirs are true to size. Most recently, I have used Roman which I have found to be very reasonably priced, excellent quality, nicely finished and long-lasting, but be a bit careful about length as "knee-length" usually means 2" below the knee! They are available in the High Street, but there is better choice at their website (roman.co.uk) and you can buy some garments on Amazon. The best one I have ever owned was given to me by a young female colleague. It was from Jaeger - straight, below the knee and fully lined. It was dry-clean only, but lasted for many years.

[Jim]

There's no need develop mens skirts.
All that needs to be done is to take down the men's dept sign and the women's dept sign and mix the clothes together ie trousers, dresses jumpers etc.

This is what I came here to say. The high fashion folks have decreed there are no men's clothes or women's clothes anymore. I think this will gradually become a common belief.

[Coder]

There's no need develop mens skirts.
All that needs to be done is to take down the men's dept sign and the women's dept sign and mix the clothes together ie trousers, dresses jumpers etc.

This is what I came here to say. The high fashion folks have decreed there are no men's clothes or women's clothes anymore. I think this will gradually become a common belief.

I’m fine with this! I think this is somewhat unlikely however as people will want to differentiate themselves one way or another, and simultaneously show they belong to one group (a specific gender, a movement, a “core”).

[denimini]

I just looked at an online bicycle shop and there was no mention of gender, just bikes for different uses. Perhaps clothing will go the same way; pants, skirts and dresses; cheerful or drab; plain or frilly.

Edit: Damn, I just found mention of a woman's mountain bike, where the stay bar is about 100mm lower below the seat post. I know there used to be a much lower bar in the old days so a woman did not need to hoist the skirt but I am not sure now with the ubiquitous bike shorts.

[Barleymower]

I’m fine with this! I think this is somewhat unlikely however as people will want to differentiate themselves one way or another, and simultaneously show they belong to one group (a specific gender, a movement, a “core”).

It's unlikely if it is across the board. A gentleman's outfitters does not have any clothes for women. Long live the niche traditional shops. Same for the ladies. No need for men to intrude the bra deptment or the wedding dresses. Etc.
I was more thinking for the general day to day shopper. I think retailers would sell more because men could pick up something for their ladies and vice versa without making the perilous journey across the aisle.

Mistakes will be made but that adds to the fun!
As for frills. Frills were high fashion for men a long time ago and as recent as the 70s.

Does anyone agree that masculinity and femininity is exuded from the person. Clothes only accentuate the person's inner self. They don't define it?

[crfriend]

Does anyone agree that masculinity and femininity is exuded from the person. Clothes only accentuate the person's inner self. They don't define it?

Absolutely, clothes do not define anything whatsoever about a person's gender or sexuality. I may have finally won that argument with my lady-friend who has come to accept that clothes are more like wrapping-paper than anything else, and she's seen me undressed in the past couple of days [0] and actually liked what she saw. Like any form of adornment, the clothes come off at the end of the day -- and she may finally be beginning to accept that.

Note, too, that "unisex" is a well-known code-word for "butching up" the women by anyone between about 30 and 70, because the term was used explicitly for that in the 1960s through the '80s. It's a "tainted" term, and hence I'd suggest avoiding it. Better to not mention "sex", "gender", and the like in most things because in most things it doesn't really matter.


[0] She recently lost one of her elder brothers and has not been taking it well, and asked me to stay with her which I have been. I need some time for me, however, and am, starting to crack from the strain of keeping her emotions in check (think hysteria, denial, uncontrolled crying, and the like) and attempting to keep her active, engaged, and moving forward with the emotional process. I've been through this before with my grandmother, grandfather, and father all dying within about 5 years of each other, so "have some experience" with the matter -- she's convinced herself that I can't because I'm an only child and she's one of ten.

[phathack]

There's no need develop mens skirts.
All that needs to be done is to take down the men's dept sign and the women's dept sign and mix the clothes together ie trousers, dresses jumpers etc.

I'm going to agree with Barleymower, with some exceptions clothing is generic.
Granted, some are cut specifically for a particular body part, like a low cut blouse etc.

When I found Skirt Café I was looking for Skirts for Men who were not trying to "Crossdress".

[Myopic Bookworm]

I just looked at an online bicycle shop and there was no mention of gender, just bikes for different uses.
Edit: Damn, I just found mention of a woman's mountain bike, where the stay bar is about 100mm lower below the seat post. I know there used to be a much lower bar in the old days so a woman did not need to hoist the skirt but I am not sure now with the ubiquitous bike shorts.

In the old days (!) as a student I had a "ladies bike" with a dropped crossbar, and it came in very handy when cycling to Scottish dancing classes in a kilt.