Equality - IWD -- as it relates to this site

[Faldaguy]

I am re-posting my reply made in my post asking "What a man should wear" as a new topic as the conversation drifted off topic in a much more interesting and provocative way, and I think it might elucidate more useful content with a more fitting subject line.

I may have stepped on some toes, but hey, some of you have high heels and can wade the deep waters
but bad jokes aside, though the US may be a 'modern western nation' it is far from 'civil' or 'equal' ... so let's hear it for how the IWD (International Women's Day) march on equality is a valid (or not) issue for us men in skirts!

Here was my reply to Stu who stirred my fingers on the keyboard:

Hola Stu and Cafe community;

WHY, an International Women's Day March? Many reasons, and many of them apply directly to this community of skirt wearing men. Just today the UN released a report showing the very high incidence of inequality, from a survey that covers countries with 80% of the world's population. Even self-reporting 28% believe it is Ok to beat spouses/women; and a huge percentage believe men are superior in politics, leadership, etc. But regardless if you ascribe to any of this, or consider it important I must take issue with your call of this a "modern western country" as a reason not to have a demonstration/gathering/march -- take a look at these signs -- provacative yes, but all too accurate.

The IWD Goals:

challenge gender norms,
empower each other,
celebrate diversity,
break stereotypes,
reject the binary,
mobilize, and
take action.

https://www.un.org/en/observances/womens-day

Image

'IMAGINE, IF YOU WILL,

A COUNTRY WHERE THE PRESIDENT BRAGS ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT,
SAYS POWS AREN'T HEROES,
PAYS OFF A PORN STAR,
FUNNELS TAXPAYER MONEY INTO HIS BUISINESSES,
DEFRAUDS CHARITY,
CAGES THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN,
TWEETS INSULTS ALL DAY,
SOLICITS FOREIGN ELECTION INTERFERENCE... AND PEOPLE STILL SUPPORT HIM.'


Image

'What Children are Learning from the current US President:

Never apologize to anyone.
Science is stupid.
Anyone different is bad.
You don't have to be nice.
America is the only country in the world.
Women are less important than men.
Be afraid of anyone not white.
School is not important.
Teachers are low paid idiots.
It is always okay to lie.

[crfriend]

I may have stepped on some toes, but hey, some of you have high heels and can wade the deep waters
but bad jokes aside, though the US may be a 'modern western nation' it is far from 'civil' or 'equal' ... so let's hear it for how the IWD (International Women's Day) march on equality is a valid (or not) issue for us men in skirts!

Did you really need to toss a live grenade into the middle of the bazaar? Because that's what's just been done, in true Facebook style.

If this thread, or the other one, doesn't go necrotic I will be very, very surprised.

[oldsalt1]

Why don't you just lock this blog now

he comes off as trying to show how a woman's march relates to men in skirts

than he flies off into a liberal rant about the president

This is not a political forum let him go cry someplace else

[crfriend]

How about some cogent and articulate debate on the matter? That's the way things like this are dealt with in polite society. Or do I have my hopes set too high?

I have a sincere plea for both "sides": Can we look beyond the propaganda and form proper and cogent opinions independent of what's being pushed at us by the mass media? Please?

I am willing to tolerate cogent and civil debate, but am not willing to tolerate ad-hominem BS.

[Faldaguy]

by oldsalt1 » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:30 pm
Why don't you just lock this blog now

he comes off as trying to show how a woman's march relates to men in skirts

than he flies off into a liberal rant about the president

This is not a political forum let him go cry someplace else

Please note, only the checked marked items at the top are the official goals of the IWD organization. The 'image' lines from signs at prior marches in the US are as i noted provocative and quoted as the politics of inequality for women has been a focus in the US, that Stu wondered about. However, it is the genuine intersection of women's equality and the issues often seen in the posts here at Skirtcafe that I think can be helpful. I see frequent comments by posters here that speak to men being suppressed or not being treated equally in their right to wear whatever clothes they choose. I do think we can rise above the ad-hominem BS and get some solid sociological insights with this group. My apology if I have offended.

[oldsalt1]

civil debate on what how the woman's march relates to men in skirts which seems like a worthwhile subject for discussion sure just have him delete his comments about the president

[oldsalt1]

Just as a point of fact you and the media are crying about 2 thousand children who were separated from their parents when they crossed the border illegally

How come you never hear of the 765,000 children that are separated from their military parents never knowing if they will see them again

over 400,000 children in foster homes

and about 2,700,000 children separated from their parents who are in prison

[Freedomforall]

Just as a point of fact you and the media are crying about 2 thousand children who were separated from their parents when they crossed the border illegally

How come you never hear of the 765,000 children that are separated from their military parents never knowing if they will see them again

over 400,000 children in foster homes

and about 2,700,000 children separated from their parents who are in prison

I want to add to what you are saying. I have some background on the whole issue of "kids being seperated from their parents." A lot of people do not realize what is actually going on. The fact of the matter is that many of these kids are kidnapped and trafficked as a tool for criminals to get over the border. Kids are exploited because criminals know how to abuse the system. I am not saying that every child coming to the border is a victim of kidnapping. However, I can without a doubt say that many are victims of kidnapping and would most likely be killed once their captor makes it across the border. Just becasue the media plays the sympathy card does not always mean the truth is involved. Thank you Old Salt for your other comments that I agree with as well!

[Fred in Skirts]

Just as a point of fact you and the media are crying about 2 thousand children who were separated from their parents when they crossed the border illegally
How come you never hear of the 765,000 children that are separated from their military parents never knowing if they will see them again, over 400,000 children in foster homes, and about 2,700,000 children separated from their parents who are in prison

Very Good points OS and I agree with you that the barb thrown at the President were not necessary at all.

[Freedomforall]

I would be curious to see exactly where the U.N. distributed their surveys. Surveys just like data can be manipulated. For example, if I wanted to do a survey that proved my city had a high crime rate, then I would find areas where crime has been happening and have those residents fill out my surveys. I would skip any areas that have experienced little to no crime. This would easily skew my results to prove my points.

Our country is becoming more diverse with cultures and beliefs. This diversity and difference in beliefs makes it more difficult for everyone to be happy with our leadership. Every person and culture that joins our country brings with them a set of expectations and beliefs on how things should be run. We must find common ground to unite rather than seeking differences that anger and seperate us, only then can we truly begin to grow as humans.

The post alludes to Western society as one that advocates beating women. I agree that violence against women is an serious issue not to be taken lightly. However, it is not a problem that is isolated to Western society. Women are much better off in our country than many other parts of the world. Take a look at this article.

https://www.insider.com/worst-countries ... pakistan-7

[Faldaguy]

Stu asked;

I'm just not sure why the 51% of the human population who are female would feel the need to have a march on that basis in a modern western country.

None of the checked marked goals; nor the lines about the President or the Children are mine. They are actual posters and signs from recent marches.

I posted them to answer Stu's question -- why a lot of women in the US are feeling the need to express themselves with an annual gathering and march.

The core issues are pretty much shown in the Checked items:

challenge gender norms,
empower each other,
celebrate diversity,
break stereotypes,
reject the binary,
mobilize, and
take action.

How these are felt and acted upon weather in Women's marches; Rotary Clubs; churches; schools; or White supremacists groups vary dramatically -- BUT it was the intersection of women's Equality and our concerns in Skirtcafe that I saw emerging and sought to discuss -- not the political-- albeit that too could be interesting in another forum. As an aside, I spent some years with the USMC; on a political action lobby board in DC; as a foster parent to troubled teens; and even a short stint as staff in a youth prison; and currently I am clerking a committee working on refugee issues in Latin America -- so your topics are ones I share concerns about -- but I echo the moderator's plea that we concern ourselves with matter of equality and its applications (or lack thereof) to this post -- or drop it as perhaps too incendiary for us.

[oldsalt1]

I'll will stop after this if a discussion of how the imw effects men in skirts is the true intent of your starting your blog why was it necessary to insert the defamatory remarks about the president . And I don't care who originally said them you put them into your blog

[Stu]

The IWD Goals:

challenge gender norms, No thanks. I am happy with the existing gender norms
empower each other, we are already "empowered". I don't feel disempowered and I don't see what powers I enjoy as a man that my wife lacks.
celebrate diversity, That's just meaningless.
break stereotypes, I am quite happy with there being stereotypes. Stereotyping is a normal cognitive response by which we make sense of reality. Like anything else, it can be taken too far and be restricted five, but stereotyping in moderation is a normal and healthy response to any external stimulus
reject the binary, No. Viva la difference! Humans are a dimorphic mammalian species - that's how we reproduce
mobilize, and that is not a "goal", it is a strategy - and it is only valid if there are goals which we desire. There aren't IMO
take action. That's just repeating the previous so-called "goal", but using a different buzz phrase.

IWD might have some legitimate goals in respect of countries where women really are oppressed or treated as second-class citizens. In the developed countries, it's a load on pointless nonsense inspired by feminists who are looking to portray all women as victims and all men as oppressors. This is a manifestation of identity politics: a child of Marxism which seeks to tear down the capitalist society be generating and emphasising identity differences and creating discord between groups. In Marx's vision, that would have been economic polarisation between the proletariat and the bourgeoisie but, in the current manifestation, it is between "minorities" (which, bizarrely includes all females!) and the evil "white, male, cis-gendered heterosexual" whom they proclaim to be "the patriarchy". I do not buy into this insanity and I am saddened to see that so many do.

[Jim]

How come you never hear of the 765,000 children that are separated from their military parents never knowing if they will see them again

An excellent point! Let's start by cutting the military to about 10% of the personnel and quit sending military people overseas.

over 400,000 children in foster homes

I certainly hear of foster homes. Most are good, but some aren't. Should the quality be more regulated? More and better drug treatment programs, along with drug legalization would reduce the need.

and about 2,700,000 children separated from their parents who are in prison

Some of the same children who are in foster care, right? We have way too many people in prison. How to reduce the prison population is a big issue. Again one step would be drug legalization and treatment programs.

I'm not sure how mentioning the plight of some children is really in opposition to caring about the plight of others. The immigrant children and those you mention are all people of worth we should care about.

[Jim]

Why don't you just lock this blog now

he comes off as trying to show how a woman's march relates to men in skirts

than he flies off into a liberal rant about the president

This is not a political forum let him go cry someplace else

You may not know it, but there are still large subcultures in the US that demean women and are not concerned about sexual harassment and assault. It is an honest question how one can care about these things and also support Trump. Some say the good outweighs the bad. I can listen to that, but let's don't minimize what is wrong.

You might not like what the sign said about the president, and you may have many things you like about him, but aren't all these criticisms true? And shouldn't they be matters of concern? Maybe you think the plusses outweigh the minuses. We can respect that.

Talking about "liberal rants", and "go cry someplace else" does not add to civil discourse in my opinion. I know that taking offense easily seems to be society's thing these days. We don't need to fall into that trap.