(Good) Comments are king.

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.

Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby dillon » Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:40 am

Sinned wrote:WL, if you had read any of my recent posts I'll repeat - company policy specifies black trousers or a black knee length skirt without specifying which sex it pertains to. I have talked to store managers and they have agreed that, in theory, I could wear a skirt and be within company standards. But we have some aged customers and it may present problems ( read they may complain and one older lady customer did complain recently ) and also climbing ladders, bending down to low shelves, reaching high shelves isn't a conducive environment for wearing a skirt. I have agreed not to and I am happy with that. Also some of the packaging can be quite dirty and dusty so trousers make more sense.


At some point we have to come to terms with our rarity, and acquiesce to reality. We do what we can do, but must occasionally recognize that our freedom is imperfect and limited, especially when it comes to providing a living for our families. Depressing? Perhaps, but others have had to sacrifice much more due to the narrow mindedness of society. Imagine how frustrating it must have been to be African-American in a white-controlled country, and not so long ago. At least we can change our clothing to suit our situation. It’s not like anyone is permanently attached to his clothing, as one is to his skin. So I wear skirts when I can, and try not to complain when circumstances countervene my desired attire.
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby dillon » Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:19 am

moonshadow wrote:
mishawakaskirt wrote:Not all right wingers are jerks


I concur. One thing that I think most of us must get over, if we want to succeed in building confidence in ourselves while we wear our chosen outfits, is that we mustn't judge people by who they vote for or their political positions.

I have been guilty of this. I'm working on quitting the behavior. As I progress in this endeavor I find that I can walk in my conservative region with my head held high and wearing skirts becomes a lot more fun!

I've seen the left side be judged just the same too... so this advice runs both ways. I've had women scoff at my outfits while sporting a Bernie Sanders sticker on their car, and I've had people with MAGA hats on shake my hand, and vice versa.


I know in my heart and mind that it is true, but it is terribly difficult to get past some facets of belief, when, in real-world consequences, the results of acting on one’s beliefs can be so hurtful to those who do not deserve to be hurt. That is the trouble with our politics in a two-party system. We have a limited ability to choose which issues we will support and oppose. There are powers that make those calls, and we are rather locked into all the consequences of our votes, because they come, like cable TV or phone service, “bundled” with positions we might like to let lie, rather than to either subvert or embrace.

As an agronomist, I worked with both conventional and “organic” producers, and much of my work was oriented as much toward preventing the over-application of crop nutrients as it was toward nutritional sufficiency in crops. I found that despite claims to the contrary, organic growers were at greater risk of causing nutrient loss to surface waters and groundwater because of the limited nutrient resources, primarily manures. Conventional growers had the advantage of soluble salt fertilizers, which generally offered either variable ratios of nutrients or individual nutrients in unique blend components. That meant they could tailor their applications to the actual crop demands. But because the nutrient sources for organic growers did not usually come separably, but rather came complexed with each other, overapplication of one nutrient in order to obtain sufficiency with another was inevitable. For example, using poultry manure to provide adequate nitrogen for a crop often meant applying excess amounts of phosphorus, a nutrient we tried to keep out of our waterways.

That’s the tragedy of the two party system. The participants have the ability to vote only for a “bundle” of values and policies. And that’s why Moon must either be a better man than me, or feel he has less at stake as a result of politics. I could be fairly conservative in a number of issues, but the current state of American conservatism would mean that I’d have to buy the “bundle” when certain components of that bundle do such immediate and intense harm to my own family members, and to dear friends, that not only could I NEVER support them, but I struggle even to reconcile the humanity of those who accept such injustice as an unavoidable, and from their POV, apparently, unimportant consequence of a political platform. So, for me, politics is intensely personal, because the right-wing’s “bundle” has pieces that do injustice and injury to those I love; and essentially hateful injustice, at that.

As a believer - a cosmic deist trying to find in myself and my fellow man even faint glimmers of the example of Christ - I should be able to forgive. But how does one forgive men who perpetually argue the perfection of of their beliefs? How does one forgive men who believe they have commissioned nothing that beckons forgiveness? How do you forgive those who act against your children’s future? So far, it has been beyond my ability. That is why I fear I cannot offer much sympathy for the grievances of self-proclaimed “right-wingers” who see themselves somehow as victims of the left. I’m afraid the best I can offer is to “live and let live.” At this juncture, I can muster tolerance, but I don’t see fraternity on the horizon. So when the politics of the day become heated, I just do my best to sit on my hands.
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby Dust » Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:39 pm

STEVIE wrote:Not entirely related to skirts but out and about yesterday I received what I consider to be the most genuine of compliments.
A young guy of my acquaintance told me how good it was to see me again and how worried he had been because it had been so long.
Nought strange except he has severe learning and mobility difficulties. He is employed in a café that is run to provide employment for people with similar challenges.
The point is that he has no agenda, there was no guile behind his statement. It was simply an honest expression of interest in a fellow human being.
This is something that some "normal" folks would do well to learn from.
I have my aches and pains but that kid just makes me feel so humble.
Steve.

Thank you for posting this. I think that part of the reason God places these folks on this Earth is to serve as a reminder and source of humility for the rest of us.
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby Dust » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:37 pm

Dillon, thanks for that very honest, well thought out post.

The agricultural analogy was interesting, and points to the fact that when two options are presented, it could very easily be a false dichotomy. I met someone who says that if you want to restore the soil, achieve drought resistance, and generally raise healthier food, you need to throw both conventional and standard organic practice out the window. What he is planning, is to first balance the soil's pH and minerals, then plant multiple crops intermixed on the same field, using no till methods, and have his animals graze directly in the field. This ends up mimicking a natural, healthy ecosystem. Apparently this has seen success where it's been tried, but you can't call it "organic," even if it's healthier for the soil and animals, as well as the people eating them. The point is, for most problems there are way more options than typically presented.

The issue of "bundling", as you put it (I'm going to have to borrow that going forward, if you don't mind), is very real, and a real problem. That said, I don't know how to get away from it. The two party system exacerbates the problem, but even parliamentary governments simply give you more bundles to choose from. Competition helps, but at the end of the day, we all have our own slightly different ideas, so the only perfect candidate would be ourselves.

Bringing religion into politics can be tricky. We should let our morals and values influence or political positions, and for many (most?) these morals and values are influenced by their faith. But we should never treat politics like a religion, or "put your faith in princes" no matter what anyone is saying about them. I see too much of this on both sides.

But if we truly believe what we claim to believe, it should be the basis of all we do. In order to have a discussion or debate on things that truly matter, we need to start firmly grounded in our beliefs. But we also need to stop and actually have a discussion, not shout over each other.
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby moonshadow » Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:26 am

dillon wrote:That’s the tragedy of the two party system. The participants have the ability to vote only for a “bundle” of values and policies. And that’s why Moon must either be a better man than me, or feel he has less at stake as a result of politics.


Perhaps I believe I may indeed have less at stake.

I suppose we all are at the same level as far as that goes, tyranny and oppression is always lurking around the corner.

Do not let my occasional upbeat and "I don't give a damn" attitude about politics fool you, I often do have my moments of deep frustration over the state of the world. Even some of my earlier post here will attest that.

I'm not sure why, but not so recently I have just started to endevour to try not to worry about things near as much. I have considered these things to be truths in my own personal situation:

  • I am worth one vote... just one, and I'm not really sure it even counts.
  • I've been offering opinions for almost my entire life... it has never benefited me in the least, none of my advice has ever been heeded, nor can I really say for certainly that my thoughts would have made the world a better place. After all, I always heed my own advice, and 9 times out of 10, it's a train wreck.
  • The world and the people in it are going to do what they are going to do, regardless of how I feel about it.
  • I am a political idiot. I don't know anything about anything. If I ran the world, I'd probably run it into the ground.
  • I could die tomorrow, or even if I had never been born... the world would have been just fine either way.

Depressed yet? Don't be.... in the truths above, I have found great solace..... Because upon those realizations I now understand:

  • I can be anything I want because nobody really cares anyway.
  • Tomorrow we may all be slaves, or I may perish... but not today! Today is the day I live, it is a gift from my creator, and will cherish this time accordingly.
  • I can not change people, but I can change myself, and I strive to be a better person every day.
  • Finally, the most important:
    Though my mouth is useless when it comes to doling out opinions and ideas, I live my opinions. I let my heart, soul, and body to the talking, to express the message. I'm working to be slow to anger, quick to forgive, trying to find the good in everything and everyone. To show kindness to friend and foe alike. I live my life, freely, not asking permission from anyone. You DON'T need to be politically minded or a collage graduate to be a light in the darkness.

    Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. When I'm right, I take the victory silently and try to teach others by example, when I'm wrong, I own up to it, make the needed corrections, apologize if needed, and learn from the mistake.

If that wasn't enough for you, take comfort, the simple fact of the matter is, that despite all of our problems, we (as in all of us) have more liberty now than at ANY time in human history. Freedom isn't going away... too many people now have tasted it to let is slip away. While we quarrel over this and that... the giant meteor continues to inch towards us.

Put on some good headphones... (or blast it for the neighbors... either is good), pick a nice clear starry night.... sit back in a lawn chair, and listen to this.

I may not be politically cunning, an A+ student, make a six figure income, drive the nicest cars, vacation in the most popular destinations, nor be very popular, BUT: I've got a good wife who stands with me, who says she'd be by my side whether we live in a big house, or under a bridge. I've taken care of her and my daughter for 16 years now, and have been providing for myself since I was a teenager. I left the nest at 19 and haven't burdened my family OR tax payers since then. I've written off personal debts owed to me, helped when I could, let things slide, and generally allowed the public to put me in financial stress, BUT, I've always went to bed with a full stomach and with a roof over my head. I thank God for that. No matter what my needs always seem to be taken care of... and of all the things I've stuck my neck out for, if I had to do them over again, I certainly would... even like that time I gave my last good American made can opener to a homeless guy.... So what I can't get one to last for a few meals now.... it was still the right thing to do.

Good comments are king!
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby Ray » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:49 am

Religion should never come into politics. It is a belief system which has no basis in the real world unlike politics (or is that similar to politics? :-) ). In the UK, if a politician openly expresses religious beliefs, they are looked upon with some suspicion. We had an example of a political leader who was openly religious, and he did not last long. The problem is that religion is not based on logic or fact, and we hope that our politicians Have some grounding in both. To be religious as a politician in the UK makes you somewhat of an oddball, like believing in UFOs or the like.
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby weeladdie18 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:07 am

During a sociology lecture at College ,the following statement was made...
The Squire and the Vicar of a Feudal English Village came to an agreement.....
The Vicar would keep the peasants simple.....and the Squire would keep the Peasants poor

In my opinion ,...little has changed in the Modern World
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby oldsalt1 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:20 am

Ray wrote:Religion should never come into politics. It is a belief system which has no basis in the real world unlike politics (or is that similar to politics? :-) ). In the UK, if a politician openly expresses religious beliefs, they are looked upon with some suspicion. We had an example of a political leader who was openly religious, and he did not last long. The problem is that religion is not based on logic or fact, and we hope that our politicians Have some grounding in both. To be religious as a politician in the UK makes you somewhat of an oddball, like believing in UFOs or the like.


I disagree your political policies should be founded as a part of your religious beliefs. I know this is true because " THE ET" told me so
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby Jim » Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Ray wrote:Religion should never come into politics.

If your religious beliefs are like mine (Do unto others as you would have others do unto you) they should come into politics; if they are like "theirs" (be like me or die!) they shouldn't. :wink:
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby Fred in Skirts » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:11 pm

Governments based on a religion are called theocracy's. The Muslim faith is a theocracy.
Their government is completely based on their religion. They believe if you don't believe in what they believe then you should be converted or killed. This is in their Koran. :(
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:whistle: Hi I am Fred and I wear skirts and dresses all of the time. :hooray:
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby crfriend » Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:02 pm

Fred in Skirts wrote:Governments based on a religion are called theocracy's. The Muslim faith is a theocracy.
Their government is completely based on their religion. They believe if you don't believe in what they believe then you should be converted or killed. This is in their Koran. :(

Mild correction here, the Muslim faith is a religion. The theocracy likely being referred to here is Iran. It's important to understand and appreciate the differences.

Of note is that it has happened in the USA. In the Colonial period, Massachusetts was effectively a theocracy based on the rules of Puritanical Anglicism -- and it still, to this day, retains hints of that. Another notable example is Utah, which is largely run on the rules of Mormonism. So do not think "it can't happen here". Witness the Southern Baptist Convention which is after dominion over the entire nation.

The sheer number of organised religions on the face of the planet at the moment merely points up precisely why states -- unless they are composed of an entirely homogeneous population -- must be secular in nature. By favouring one, all others are discounted and the individuals so believing are automatically disenfranchised.

It could be said that the modern USA is already a theocracy -- that of Baal Mammon -- and I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader t draw his own conclusion.
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby moonshadow » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:53 am

crfriend wrote:Witness the Southern Baptist Convention which is after dominion over the entire nation.


I don't think that will happen. Though my region has no shortage of Baptist churches, there are plenty of other denominations to dilute the waters so to speak. Independent Baptist is a big thing around here....

And let me tell you buddy... Southern Baptist is "San Fransisco Liberal" compared to the "Independent Fundamental Baptist" Churches.

Nah... even in the overall Christian religion, there are just too many different denominations and sects for one to completely take hold over the whole nation. Agnosticism and Atheism is stronger than most people realize, even in these parts.

But... even if they did (take over the nation)... I ain't bendin' my knee. I don't need no other "man" telling me what's what with God.... they don't know anymore than I do or anybody else. They just like to run that mouth.
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby dillon » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:03 am

Jim wrote:
Ray wrote:Religion should never come into politics.

If your religious beliefs are like mine (Do unto others as you would have others do unto you) they should come into politics; if they are like "theirs" (be like me or die!) they shouldn't. :wink:

Yep.

And Moon is right, that the taste of freedom lingers. But all over the world men who have tasted it still starve.

I never actually said anything about religion in politics. But since the topic is out there now...

I can’t understand why some find it so urgent to legislate religious beliefs. And often the same folks who won’t hesitate to give you an earful of rhetoric about the looming threat of Sharia Law, but apparently see nothing wrong with imposing their own beliefs by force of law. Not sure where they think the Sharia threat is emerging, since among our 535 Senators and Representatives there are three Muslim, three Hindu, and one Buddhist.

American democracy is not really a winner-take-all system. It is modified by the Constitution which contains much that protects us from “the tyranny of the majority.”

I guess I just wonder what’s wrong with making our society a big tent, with enough space, enough grace, to accommodate people of all faiths or of no faith tradition. Space and grace for the traditional family and the non-traditional, for hetero and gay and trans. For the white, brown, olive, and black. We don’t have to join anyone’s club, but we don’t need to ban those clubs either. I just think this noble idea that unites us - American democracy - is strong enough to handle human differences. Why don’t we just give it a try?
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby moonshadow » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:39 am

I definitely like the way you think Dillon....

dillon wrote:I can’t understand why some find it so urgent to legislate religious beliefs. And often the same folks who won’t hesitate to give you an earful of rhetoric about the looming threat of Sharia Law, but apparently see nothing wrong with imposing their own beliefs by force of law.


The commoners are afraid Dillon. The fear mongering comes from the top and works its way down. They are convinced and afraid that if left unchecked, people with lifestyles of which they disagree with will gradually infiltrate the entire community, then they no longer will be in the majority position.

What irks me is that most of these people are professed and regular church going Christians, though the scriptures clearly state to "not store your treasures on Earth", rather to store up your treasures in heaven. Thus, the Christ like disciple will not worry over worldly matters, rather simply put his or her faith in God and let the world be.

I'm not going to get too deep into that because someone's just going to fire back this or fire back that... and I've grown tired of these debates... to those who have justified a greedy, hateful, and bigoted existence in the name of God... have at it... those people are beyond any help I have the patience to provide. May their God have mercy on their souls... I read a very smart passage that I often apply in modern times... "do not cast pearls before swine".

That's why I don't allow TV service in my house... it's nothing but swine slop, piped into our brains. To say it is garbage would be a credit to my opinion of the service. I've reached a point where it almost literately sours my stomach and makes me physically ill when I go into a restaurant or other public place where one of those squawking "news" channels is playing. I've been known to turn around and walk out.
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Re: (Good) Comments are king.

Postby Gusto10 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:57 am

In first instance I wondered what the recent discussion has to do with wearing skirts, but it dawned on me, that Adam and Eve wore gowns after they had to leave paradise. Religions: Islam, Hindi, Judaism, Christianity all have the same roots and co-existed more or less nicely in the past. All started of in what now is known as the Middle east. There is a difference in the experience due to the difference in the interpretation. Christianity has become more rational, the others more emotional. E.g. the way of praying. In respect of the islam, there is not just one islam, there are many, each Mullah has "his own" version. same with Christianity, one church has a total different approach that the other, Protestants and Catholics (derived from the old Greek word for "general") as main streams. The influence of the religion on daily life is great. Fundamentalism is present in all main forms. The more extreme forms now being regarded as forms of terrorism. Bible belts may be also considered fundamentalistic. Many have been pondering over what should be understood under the concept of God, i.e. Plato, Socrates, Descartes, Erasmus, etc. Each is own opinion An example of the influence on daily life, in the 4th century the convention of bishops at Nicosia, sat pondering the question as to how the universe has come into existence. Has it always been there or has it come into existence by means of a big bang. They decided on the latter even though they had no proof thereof. Scientists still follow this thought which means that much of the gained perception might be based on a false hypothesis.
I have seem people who have to be very critical in respect of their daily activities but when it comes to religion will take everything for granted. This really surprises me each and every time.
As to religion as law, isn't the way of life in line with the general believe and what has been normal due to the interpretation of not also a form of law in the western world? The book of Deutronomy was referred to as the book of law.
I do think that the remark of one preacher the other ay is the best, God is within you and only can experience him in your own way. And your experience is as good as an others experience.
As the discussion of the phenomenon God is running already over 4000 years, I guess we shan't be able to resolve it at this forum. Hence I propose to return to the original issue of the good comments on our skirt wearing.
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