The Issue of Gender and Clothing

[JeffB1959]

Feeling Freedom & skirtingtheissue: Thanks for the kind words. It's most rewarding to read that others here feel the same way I do when it comes to fashion freestyling. And yes, I also do my fair share of chiseling!

[tbryant2k12]

I've also come to the conclusion that social and gender norms are just outdated and pointless. Especially seeing how many items were once considered male. Everyone should be able to wear what they are comfortable without society dictating what we can and can't wear.

[Caultron]

I've also come to the conclusion that social and gender norms are just outdated and pointless. Especially seeing how many items were once considered male. Everyone should be able to wear what they are comfortable without society dictating what we can and can't wear.

Exactly.

But please, tell us about yourself. Are you now wearing skirts? How much? Where? What kind? And what do those around you think of it?

And have you actually encountering anyone telling you what you can and can't wear? And if so, who?

I was standing in a long line this evening and chatting with the woman just in front of me. We talked hockey for about five minutes and then she suddenly asked, "Are you Irish?" I replied, "No, why do you ask?" then I thought for a second and added, "Oh, it's the kilt, isn't it?" (I was wearing a hockey jersey, a black utility kilt, black tights, and black lace-up 3.5" heels.) I continued, "No I'm not Irish, just nuts. One good thing about being an old man is that you get to be a crazy old man."

"Oh, I don't think you're nuts at all," she replied. "And I like those heels. They almost look like step dancing shoes."

Then we continued our conversation in which she asked if I played any sports, and I said no I was never good at them but I do a lot of hiking, and she asked what my favorite hike was, and I told her it was the Sycamore Canyon loop here in Arizona, and she said she thought she'd flown over that canyon, so I asked her if she flew small planes, and she said yes, and in fact she was a flight instructor. All of which I mention because here was this interesting woman totally accepting my kilt and heels. What more do you want?

[tbryant2k12]

I have a decent collection of skirts, but have yet to be out in public yet in them. One of these days. Otherwise I mostly wear basic women's clothes, tops, pants, underwear, shoes.

[Sinned]

Welcome tb, you are no different in your attire than most of us here. I don't think that any of the traditional women's clothes should be barred to us. The main thing that we have to overcome is our own social conditioning. For instance I find that women's tops, dresses with a definite low cut decolletage jarrs on my senses mainly because such is meant to display the female cleavage and the sight of a hairy chest just doesn't seem to have the same appeal somehow. But I do wear other aisle clothes nevertheless and am not ashamed of it. So join in some of the posts, you will get more out if that way than you will ever put in.

[tbryant2k12]

Exactly, they are clothes that just happen to have a female label associated to them. Also just started to wear leggings more. Last summer I drove to Rapid City, SD as a staging point for the solar eclipse. On my way back home to Manitoba, I wore a skirt while driving. I was solo on that trip. And there were a few other occasions when I drove while in a skirt.

[phathack]

Exactly, they are clothes that just happen to have a female label associated to them. Also just started to wear leggings more. Last summer I drove to Rapid City, SD as a staging point for the solar eclipse. On my way back home to Manitoba, I wore a skirt while driving. I was solo on that trip. And there were a few other occasions when I drove while in a skirt.

Late last year I decided that I was going to adopt leggings as my preferred daily wear.
So it's become Leggings, Skirts, Dresses, Slacks and Jeans if I have to.
I wear overalls in the workshop as I need the protection when cutting, welding and assorted other work I do in the workshop.

[Caultron]

I have a decent collection of skirts, but have yet to be out in public yet in them...

Carpe diem!

[tbryant2k12]

Found this podcast about fashion, Unraveled: A Fashion Podcast. It has a 3 part podcast about women wearing pants. It's quite informative and amazing how social standards were so against women wearing pants. Because it made them look too masculine.

https://www.unravelpodcast.com/episodes ... pantspart1

https://www.unravelpodcast.com/episodes-1/womeninpants2

https://www.unravelpodcast.com/episodes-1/womeninpants3

It really shows how strong social pressure was. This also included what men and women could wear for swimwear.

https://www.stuffmomnevertoldyou.com/po ... bikini.htm

Slowly we are moving away from society dictating what a man and woman can wear to personal choices. The way it should be.

[Caultron]

...Slowly we are moving away from society dictating what a man and woman can wear to personal choices. The way it should be.

Actually, in my experience, we are there. All you have to do is believe it and then do it. Most people won't care, some of those who do will like it, and those that don't will at least give you your space.

[Daryl]

... I feel that's it's vital to question why men have to be so annoyingly limited when it comes to what they can wear while women have no limits whatsoever, something I find to be glaringly unfair.

Maybe my thinking is muddled here, but to me this is a form of inequality. We hear an awful lot about women getting equality with men, and nothing about men getting equality with women; equality is a two-way street. I know that equality in clothing is pretty trivial compared with other forms of inequality (equal pay for example), but I do think it is a form of inequality. Consciously or unconsciously, Cafe members and others are trying to re-dress the balance by making a choice to wear clothing not commonly associated (yet!) with men.
Charlie

I agree that it's a form of inequality, and that it seems pretty trivial. I underscore "seems" because that is truly only an apparency, a result of the ancient communal bias we have in favour of women. In the real world the pay gap is trivial compared to the safety gap. What our choosing of female-normative clothing (or anything else) reveals through its very controversy is truly pernicious. Men are supposed to wear disposable armour suited to military and industrial wage slavery, and wearing anything else is living in defiance of our "proper" place in the world: the role of disposable worker drones.

Fortunately the western world is comfortable enough that we currently have a lot of latitude, and people in general are more easy going than observation of the extremists among us would lead us to believe. But no mistake about it, we are asserting that we are equal to women, and taking that equality.

[Daryl]

...Slowly we are moving away from society dictating what a man and woman can wear to personal choices. The way it should be.

Actually, in my experience, we are there. All you have to do is believe it and then do it. Most people won't care, some of those who do will like it, and those that don't will at least give you your space.

Well, yeah, but try it in Russia. Just saying.

[STEVIE]

Hi Daryl,
I'd add quite a few other areas of the rest of the so called civilised world too.
We have a long, long road to travel to general acceptance.
Steve.

[Daryl]

Jeff, You say so well a lot of what I feel! Well done.

We chisel away at the employers and objecting spouses by continuing to don our skirts and other "women's" attire freely and openly while identifying as the men we are, eventually it may become as commonplace as women who wear trousers.

Moon, this chiseling is what it's all about, whether it be skirting or freestyling! That is, without your specific focus of employers and spouses, i.e. "We chisel away at society's "norms" by continuing to don our skirts and other "women's" attire freely and openly while identifying as the men we are, eventually it may become as commonplace as women who wear trousers." Keep on chiseling, everyone!

"Chiseling" is a good metaphor.

Keep calm and chisel on.

[Caultron]

Well, yeah, but try it in Russia. Just saying.

Guy from Moskow. Just saying.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/cd_player/