The Wonder of Women's Clothes: My History

[moonshadow]

Regarding purses

I'm glad to carry one. It is easier on my back, and I enjoy not having my pockets loaded down. The minor inconvenience of having to carry a bag around on my shoulder pales in comparison to having my stuff strung out across 4 pockets or more.

That said, it seems in my experience with skirt wearing, there is more stigma associated with carrying a purse. For example, when I had one of my redneck neighbors confront me about a skirt I was wearing, he seemed more interested in teasing me about the purse I was carrying.

I thought it odd.

This is not the first time that has happened. It seems in general, when a man carries a purse, he will be teased. Even more so than skirts as far as I can tell. It's pretty dumb really.

[skirted_in_SF]

This is not the first time that has happened. It seems in general, when a man carries a purse, he will be teased. Even more so than skirts as far as I can tell. It's pretty dumb really.

I don't think I've ever gotten a comment on my purse/bag even though I've been using one Friday to Sunday for about five years. Did get an oblique comment on my skirt at work today. Boss made a joke about he should have brought his bagpipes today. I was wearing my "kilt" skirt. It's dark blue with dark green box plaid, not remotely tartan. Other than wrapping in front and having a pin-like device on the wrap, it's a distant cousin to a kilt. But it did lead to a short conversation comparing ancestries. He's Mormon, so he knows a lot more about his ancestors than I know about mine.

[dillon]

My Fossil bag is the Estate EW Messenger seen here:

https://www.fossil.com/us/en/men/bags/v ... 9201c.html

Nice. I'd have to find a 70% off sale, though, on my budget.

[Potbelly MacKraken]

This is not the first time that has happened. It seems in general, when a man carries a purse, he will be teased. Even more so than skirts as far as I can tell. It's pretty dumb really.

I don't think I've ever gotten a comment on my purse/bag even though I've been using one Friday to Sunday for about five years. Did get an oblique comment on my skirt at work today. Boss made a joke about he should have brought his bagpipes today. I was wearing my "kilt" skirt. It's dark blue with dark green box plaid, not remotely tartan. Other than wrapping in front and having a pin-like device on the wrap, it's a distant cousin to a kilt. But it did lead to a short conversation comparing ancestries. He's Mormon, so he knows a lot more about his ancestors than I know about mine.

Next time he makes a joke or gives you a hard time about your skirts/skirt wearing, simply show him this painting and say, "let's see what the prophet Mormon is wearing today..."
https://www.lds.org/media-library/image ... 9?lang=eng

Or show him this pic and say "all the righteous folk are doing it."
https://www.lds.org/media-library/image ... 5?lang=eng

And you can tell him you have a fellow CA acquaintance who's an active Mormon male skirt wearer (your's truly). In actuality, I'm an active Transgender Mormon, as I identify as non-binary/gender fluid. He might get a kick outta that.

[skirted_in_SF]

I don't think I've ever gotten a comment on my purse/bag even though I've been using one Friday to Sunday for about five years. Did get an oblique comment on my skirt at work today. Boss made a joke about he should have brought his bagpipes today. I was wearing my "kilt" skirt. It's dark blue with dark green box plaid, not remotely tartan. Other than wrapping in front and having a pin-like device on the wrap, it's a distant cousin to a kilt. But it did lead to a short conversation comparing ancestries. He's Mormon, so he knows a lot more about his ancestors than I know about mine.

Next time he makes a joke or gives you a hard time about your skirts/skirt wearing, simply show him this painting and say, "let's see what the prophet Mormon is wearing today..."
https://www.lds.org/media-library/image ... 9?lang=eng

Or show him this pic and say "all the righteous folk are doing it."
https://www.lds.org/media-library/image ... 5?lang=eng

And you can tell him you have a fellow CA acquaintance who's an active Mormon male skirt wearer (your's truly). In actuality, I'm an active Transgender Mormon, as I identify as non-binary/gender fluid. He might get a kick outta that.

He's never given me a hard time and I've worn several more "skirt" skirts to work in the past. But none of them have fringe on the bottom like your first link.

Question: how do your fellow LDS members react to you being an "active Transgender Mormon"?

[Potbelly MacKraken]

Question: how do your fellow LDS members react to you being an "active Transgender Mormon"?

Some are understanding, others not so much. Most don't understand because there's a lot of misunderstanding and lack of knowledge on the issues of being Trans and being Mormon, and just on transgender issues as it is. For me, those that matter have been very understanding, non-judgmental, and accepting. Tho, I must specify that I have not transitioned fully, nor will I; I've transitioned as far as I feel I need to go in engaging more in my feminine side in the ways that don't clash with LDS doctrine, i.e. wearing the clothes I feel comfortable wearing, etc. I don't claim to be the other gender. I just am somewhere in the middle, with essences of both genders as part of me. I recognize that in this life, I am a feminine man, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's not a lot of LDS doctrine when it comes to gender, not like there is on homosexuality, and LDS leaders have admitted this. There is an unfortunate LDS "culture" that goes along with the religious doctrines that tends to be intolerant of those who are different, especially when it comes to crossing gender boundaries. Thus, there's a long way to go, but there is more understanding within the last year of so than there ever has been. People are just scared of what they don't understand. But, we're working on changing that, helping people understand, like we are here on this board. It's all a work in progress as we learn more together on the situation/issue of being Trans and Mormon.

There's plenty of other active Trans out there, some MTF, some FTM, and still others non-binary and gender fluid like me. Some have transitioned partially, sme fully, some not at all. Here's an example of one I know of:
http://jeremyvotaw.com/gender-sense/

Another source: http://northstarlds.org/journeys-of-faith/

[Pdxfashionpioneer]

Keep up the good work PM!

God bless you and your compatriots and your work.

[Caultron]

That said, it seems in my experience with skirt wearing, there is more stigma associated with carrying a purse. For example, when I had one of my redneck neighbors confront me about a skirt I was wearing, he seemed more interested in teasing me about the purse I was carrying.

I thought it odd.

This is not the first time that has happened. It seems in general, when a man carries a purse, he will be teased. Even more so than skirts as far as I can tell. It's pretty dumb really.

In my experience, anything I've just started wearing attracts the most negative attention. Like, when I first started wearing skirts, I was sure everyone was glaring at that.

But when those demons disappeared and I tried wearing tights, the tights seemed to gather all sort of negative responses.

And after I realized that no one cared about the tights after all, I tried wearing heels and felt like a spectacle doing that.

After the heels came a bag and than engendered almost no reaction at all.

I'd say the heels still get the most attention: more than the skirt tights, or bag. But whatever's new still creates the most anxiety.

[dillon]

Question: how do your fellow LDS members react to you being an "active Transgender Mormon"?

Some are understanding, others not so much. Most don't understand because there's a lot of misunderstanding and lack of knowledge on the issues of being Trans and being Mormon, and just on transgender issues as it is. For me, those that matter have been very understanding, non-judgmental, and accepting. Tho, I must specify that I have not transitioned fully, nor will I; I've transitioned as far as I feel I need to go in engaging more in my feminine side in the ways that don't clash with LDS doctrine, i.e. wearing the clothes I feel comfortable wearing, etc. I don't claim to be the other gender. I just am somewhere in the middle, with essences of both genders as part of me. I recognize that in this life, I am a feminine man, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's not a lot of LDS doctrine when it comes to gender, not like there is on homosexuality, and LDS leaders have admitted this. There is an unfortunate LDS "culture" that goes along with the religious doctrines that tends to be intolerant of those who are different, especially when it comes to crossing gender boundaries. Thus, there's a long way to go, but there is more understanding within the last year of so than there ever has been. People are just scared of what they don't understand. But, we're working on changing that, helping people understand, like we are here on this board. It's all a work in progress as we learn more together on the situation/issue of being Trans and Mormon.



There's plenty of other active Trans out there, some MTF, some FTM, and still others non-binary and gender fluid like me. Some have transitioned partially, sme fully, some not at all. Here's an example of one I know of:
http://jeremyvotaw.com/gender-sense/

Another source: http://northstarlds.org/journeys-of-faith/

I'm not sure how this fits in, but I found it very moving to hear this coming from the Lt. Governor of Utah:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... community/

I knew nothing about the LDS except for the case of John Perry Chaney and the Freemen...having briefly known his daughter, who was much abused by the very conservative cult and her father. Later I got to know a coworker who was LDS, and came to really adore her. I found the whole Baptism by Proxy thing very strange, but also very sweet, in as much as someone would care enough to be Baptized for another person's soul. I have a more open mind now, but the LDS links to subversive paramilitary groups like the Freemen still troubles me. I see little that could be considered Godly in their behavior or philosophy.

[Sinned]

Dillon, who are the freemen. I have been an LDS all my life and, while I am only semi-active at the moment, I've never heard of any links or who they are. Is it a US thing because the only thing I can think of over here is when a person is made a Freeman of the City, and honour granted to someone who has given very, very special service to the community.

[Stevie D]

Dillon, who are the freemen. I have been an LDS all my life and, while I am only semi-active at the moment, I've never heard of any links or who they are. Is it a US thing because the only thing I can think of over here is when a person is made a Freeman of the City, and honour granted to someone who has given very, very special service to the community.

Dennis - in this case, I guess the reference is to the Montana Freemen, an ultra-right-wing paramilitary organisation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Freemen

It's nothing to do with being made a Freeman of a city. Far from it in fact. There are still militia-type groups which advocate arming themselves to prepare for action against 'enemies' such as the Dept. of Justice, FBI etc., and goodness knows who else. A quick look at one of their websites e.g. ...
http://www.militianews.com
... will tell you pretty much all you want to know, and you'll probably wished you'd never asked in the first place. Think of the EDL, BNP, etc., carrying rifles and hand-guns and you'll get the idea.

[Sinned]

No wonder I wasn't aware but nonetheless I can't see what any of the Church's General Authorities would gain from any association with such an organisation so I would find it difficult to believe it unless there was some proof. Not saying it can't happen and I am not so brainwashed but I just can't see any motive to associate with a violent anti-government organisation.

[Potbelly MacKraken]

Question: how do your fellow LDS members react to you being an "active Transgender Mormon"?

Some are understanding, others not so much. Most don't understand because there's a lot of misunderstanding and lack of knowledge on the issues of being Trans and being Mormon, and just on transgender issues as it is. For me, those that matter have been very understanding, non-judgmental, and accepting. Tho, I must specify that I have not transitioned fully, nor will I; I've transitioned as far as I feel I need to go in engaging more in my feminine side in the ways that don't clash with LDS doctrine, i.e. wearing the clothes I feel comfortable wearing, etc. I don't claim to be the other gender. I just am somewhere in the middle, with essences of both genders as part of me. I recognize that in this life, I am a feminine man, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's not a lot of LDS doctrine when it comes to gender, not like there is on homosexuality, and LDS leaders have admitted this. There is an unfortunate LDS "culture" that goes along with the religious doctrines that tends to be intolerant of those who are different, especially when it comes to crossing gender boundaries. Thus, there's a long way to go, but there is more understanding within the last year of so than there ever has been. People are just scared of what they don't understand. But, we're working on changing that, helping people understand, like we are here on this board. It's all a work in progress as we learn more together on the situation/issue of being Trans and Mormon.



There's plenty of other active Trans out there, some MTF, some FTM, and still others non-binary and gender fluid like me. Some have transitioned partially, sme fully, some not at all. Here's an example of one I know of:
http://jeremyvotaw.com/gender-sense/

Another source: http://northstarlds.org/journeys-of-faith/

I'm not sure how this fits in, but I found it very moving to hear this coming from the Lt. Governor of Utah:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... community/

I knew nothing about the LDS except for the case of John Perry Chaney and the Freemen...having briefly known his daughter, who was much abused by the very conservative cult and her father. Later I got to know a coworker who was LDS, and came to really adore her. I found the whole Baptism by Proxy thing very strange, but also very sweet, in as much as someone would care enough to be Baptized for another person's soul. I have a more open mind now, but the LDS links to subversive paramilitary groups like the Freemen still troubles me. I see little that could be considered Godly in their behavior or philosophy.

Not sure this is the place for all this, but after doing several google searches, I came up with nothing on this John Perry Chaney and his connection to the LDS church except that he and ilk were excommunicated from the LDS church. The LDS church disavows those who practice polygamy as not of their faith, and at least one LDS leader has disavowed militias and such. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwGji7hQYqM & http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref ... e.html.csp. So, the idea that the LDS Church as an entity or any of its leaders has supported a militia group like the Montana Freemen, publicly, or privately, is quite hard to swallow for me, from the research I have done and from what I know of the LDS church leadership. From what I was able to find, and from what I know of the LDS church, it's very unlikely that such connections exist. It's more likely that Chaney was at one point a member of the LDS church, was excommunicated and all ties cut by the church for his actions, and he continued to preach his own doctrine that was contrary to LDS church doctrine despite him being excommunicated, kinda like the guy who abducted Elizabeth Smart. The actions of one man who claims to be connected to the LDS religion yet truly isn't and has been cut off by that religion doesn't and can't represent the church itself. Nor can the actions of one actual member define the real beliefs and practices of the church as an organization. It would be like saying all the catholic priests who have had illicit relations with people define Catholicism. It's guilt by (apparent) association. So, rest assured, there is likely no connection between the official Mormons and the Freemen. Hope that clears things up. If you ever wish to know more about the LDS religion and its beliefs and practices, a helpful and explanatory website is www.mormon.org, particularly the "beliefs" tab. It's very resourceful as a source of information.

[Ralph]

It's good to find a kindred spirit when it comes to fashion freestyling.

Yeah. 40 years ago -- before Internet, before *anyone* with *any* kind of deviation from societal norms could come out of the closet -- I just assumed I was gay, a woman in a man's body, or both*. It never even occurred to me that I could be a heterosexual, full-y-chromosome dude and want to wear dresses. If groups like this had existed when I was in high school and confused... well, I'd probably still be confused but at least I'd have brothers to be confused with

I envy you guys here. I'm still not up to the point of being able to go outside the house dressed how I prefer, except for brief moments after dark when I'm taking the trash out, and only then because I live way out in the country where our nearest neighbors are a quarter mile away. I'm 50+ and live in an EXTREMELY conservative rural countryside where everyone is deeply religious. So if I ever got caught out in a skirt, not only would the neighbors know right away and start throwing rocks at me... I would probably be in the headlines the next day. It's one of those small towns where everybody knows everybody and there are no secrets. Still, just having found a wonderful lady who accepts me as I am makes life wonderful.

Before I discovered brothers who share my fondness for alternative clothing while still retaining our manhood, I hung around a lot of crossdressing websites. I never could fit in at those places. Dude, who *gives* a crap about makeup and breast forms? And what guy cares about dry cleaning and picking appropriate wash cycles? I throw my poofy taffeta in with my nylon tights and my rayon skirts and my flannel nightgowns and my jeans and t-shirts, and wad them all up in a big wrinkled ball when I'm done with them. The self-identified "gurls" shriek when I tell 'em that. The only iron I know how to use is a 9-iron.

With regards to the purse thing:
1) If you still want to carry your wallet in a pants pocket, use the front pocket. It's probably not as bad for your back, and it's SURE a whole lot safer from pickpockets. And it doesn't hurt to sit on.

2) I finally gave in and started using a cheap canvas carryon flight bag as a man-purse. Between my wallet, keys, phone, camera (I take lots of pictures), allergy pills, cough drops for same allergies, loose change, sunglasses, driving glasses, gloves in the winter, etc. etc. etc. there's just too much to stuff in my pockets. If I'm going someplace where a bag would be awkward, like a store where they give you the hairy eyeball for carrying bags in with you, I leave the bag in the car and just take my wallet and keys. If I expect to need several of the things in my bag (pitch pipe, because I'm a singer in two different choirs, music for the same reason, and so on) I take the bag with me. It's about as gender-neutral as you could ever hope for, so nobody has ever given me grief about it.

* Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course... but it ain't me.

[Caultron]

Well, keep up the fight, Ralph.

As to community disapproval, I doubt they'd really throw rocks in this day and age, especially over clothes. Perhaps you're transferring your own fears onto the community. They might be more understanding (or at least less caring) than you think.

You're already succeeding with the purse, so perhaps the next step would be some other garment designed for women, such as pants, shirts, or shoes. Or perhaps you could carefully mention the topic to a close friend and ask them how they think the community might react.

Or if you're happy doing what you're doing, just keep doing it.