Difficulties with partners

[Caultron]

Guess I’m really one of the lucky few. God knows I’ve had the regular problems with previous girlfriends. However, my current girlfriend was supportive from the very first day and didn’t need much persuasion…

Sounds like a keeper.

[STEVIE]

Ricky,
I'd echo Caultron, be sure to treasure that Lady of yours.
For myself, I get left to get on with it, no great reaction because that would mean discussion.
At the moment, that leaves me free, should I bemoan my lot?
The only regret is that I don't have anyone to "share" with.
Steve.

[Sinned]

Interestingly there was a programme called Highway to Heaven on this morning about a couple of angels who try to intervene and solve personal problems. In this episode a violin maker/teacher had his son visit for Christmas who confesses that he is gay and is dying from AIDS. Before his son was conceived an angel visits the father and tells him that he would have a son and gives him a piece of wood to make a violin from. The wood contains a flaw which is evident in the back of the violin and is obviously indicative of the "flaw" in his son. The father rejects his son but, after intervention by the angels, on the son's deathbed the father recants and accepts his son and all is hunky dory. I said to MOH, "Well I have the flaw in liking skirts. The father could accept his son why can't you accept my skirts." Little comment from her but it may set her thinking. I'll try and have a conversation about it in due course. Watch this space.

[denimini]

I said to MOH, "Well I have the flaw in liking skirts. The father could accept his son why can't you accept my skirts."

I understand your situation and tactic but it might not be good long term strategy to say you have a flaw in liking skirts. I would call it independent thinking to like skirts and strength of character to wear them.
Anthony

[Sinned]

Anthony, I know what you are saying and if it had been a friend or close relative I could agree with you but come on this is someone I have known for over 40 years, been through good times and some immensely painful times, slept with and knows me more intimately than I probably know myself. She sees it as something akin to cross-dressing ( no I'm not going down that path, just quoting her own words ) not normal so I wouldn't be saying something new to her. I just wanted to get her THINKING instead of just reacting emotionally. But yes I thank you for raising the point which would probably be valid for anyone else.

[denimini]

Well, I hope your "flaw" is accepted a lot sooner than the son's was in the story.

[moonshadow]

Interestingly there was a programme called Highway to Heaven on this morning about a couple of angels who try to intervene and solve personal problems. In this episode a violin maker/teacher had his son visit for Christmas who confesses that he is gay and is dying from AIDS. Before his son was conceived an angel visits the father and tells him that he would have a son and gives him a piece of wood to make a violin from. The wood contains a flaw which is evident in the back of the violin and is obviously indicative of the "flaw" in his son. The father rejects his son but, after intervention by the angels, on the son's deathbed the father recants and accepts his son and all is hunky dory. I said to MOH, "Well I have the flaw in liking skirts. The father could accept his son why can't you accept my skirts." Little comment from her but it may set her thinking. I'll try and have a conversation about it in due course. Watch this space.

I may be wrong, but I always thought one was an angel, the other was a man. I will admit, that show came out when I was just a little fella so I'm no expert on it. Jenn loves the show. I agree it is pretty nice. I guess that was back where there was real TV. Or at least TV worth watching.

I agree with Anthony about pinning skirt wearing as a "flaw" but I also understand you know best how to word things in regards to your personal situation, and I see the point you were making, that being acceptance, regardless of whether it's a real "flaw" or not.

40 years is a long time to be with someone. I congratulate you on your extraordinarily long marriage.

If you don't mind my asking Dennis, how long into your marriage were you when you started wearing skirts? And how long before your wife found out?

Also like Anthony, I hope she comes around before you're on your death bed.

[Sinned]

Moon, I'm trying to get her to see it not as a flaw but as a part of my lifelong ability to stand apart from the crowd. Like you I've always felt the odd one out and NEVER been one to follow fashion but to do my own thing which was generally something different from the rest of my crowd. Also I've always had a penchant for clothes from the other side of the aisle and it showed in MOH and I wearing matching tops such as T-shirts or shirts or trousers over the years. I would also try on her skirts on add times when she was out which she doesn't know about. I seriously thought of wearing skirts in summer 2012 but thought that to do so you had to do the whole 9 yards. Then in August 2012 I found this site and learned otherwise. I had worn a skirt as part of a New Years Eve party dress up in 2011. When shopping in ASDA summer 2012 there was a denim-type skirt on sale for 2 pounds and I suggested to MOH that I buy it for myself and she agreed. Thus my first skirt was bought with her agreement. She has since either been with me when I have bought some skirts from charity shops or she has actually bought off her own bat. But I think that she thought that I would only wear a skirt in house and it would only be between the two of us. The trouble is that I discovered how comfortable and cool a skirt is. Like you I've become interested in tops and have bought some with spaghetti straps and vests for summer vacations and for layering under shirts during winter. The rest is history for me.

I think that MOH's problem is that she says that when she sees me in a skirt, my long hair in a ponytail and my ear studs she sees woman even though I have tried to assure her that that is the last impression I want to give. I just don't know how to get her to change this impression, if I ever can. She must know that I wear a skirt outside when she isn't around, as I have sometimes said that most people just don't even notice and those that do just do a double take and then go about their business, although she has never acknowledged this fact and never asked anything further. She is probably pushing that to the back of her mind and choosing to ignore it.

[moonshadow]

It's interesting Dennis, your wife seems to be about where my mom is in regards to skirt wearing. And also ironic, is that at 35 years old, I can say they mom and I have known each other for about as long as you've been married. The one advantage I have in this regard is I don't have to live with my mother, only answer for little things like this once in a while in brief conversations on the phone and such. But if ever a day were to come where I'd have to live with her for whatever reason, I'm sure I'd have to box up the skirts. Similar to what I read in your post, my mom doesn't want to "say" she doesn't support it, because she knows that would be unfair, and people generally don't like having to confront a prejudice. So they just try to keep it at arms distance, offering little tidbits of "support" here and there, but never enough to where it can become second nature. Secretly, I believe they are hoping it's a fad that will fade away.

And with some men, it may just do that. I don't anticipate it with me however.

It's too bad that more spouses don't actually embrace this. It seems Jenn has started to really have fun dressing me up at GoodWills and other places. When we go together, I'll be in the fitting room trying on one thing and during that time she's tossing two or three more garments over the door for me to try on. In many ways once Jenn came around, it seems to have given us something we can share together. If you can picture two "girlfriends" trying on clothes together, talking about how it fits, figures, and what not... that was the scene last Saturday. It was a lot of fun. Women tend to like clothes shopping. Perhaps that could be a direction for those who are having trouble with spouses to try. Granted, it may not work for everyone. One thing that ironically helped Jenn I think, was her discovery of this site. I will admit, the first couple of weeks was very rough, some of you all may recall the post. But once that settled down and she began to read the stories on here from other men. She began to see we're not creepy perverts, not monsters, we're regular people, with hearts, souls, and feelings too.

Be advised though, that's one genie you can't put back in the bottle. As with anything regarding information... once it's out... it's out. Jenn joined this site relatively early on during my membership here. Thus I hadn't had years and years to stick my foot in my mouth in that regard.

I once heard, I believe in a church, that marriage is like tempering a piece of steel, or a sword. It has to be exposed to fire and pounded on to forge into something strong and beautiful.

I can imagine it being tough for you and her, Dennis. Compared to 40 years, this whole thing is relatively new to her. Unfortunately, and don't take this offense, but you all are in that "stubborn" age. People who are very young flow with the herd (crowd) because that's the only way they know how to handle the scary new world. I believe my age (30-45) is probably the most open minded of age groups. This can be observed in political/religious surveys out and about. We are at that age where we are comfortable with "adult life", and are starting to find our own way, yet still fluid enough to not "have our mind made up" yet. Once people get towards 50, their mental fate is for the most part sealed it would seem. What you see is what you get. One can only hope that that mental state is one of acceptance and tolerance.....

...otherwise we run the risk of turning out like my dad, a bitter old man constantly at odds with the changes of the world. I've often said I wouldn't have so much trouble with my mother if she was the same women she was back in the early 90's. But then again... she was in her mid 30's then, her mind wasn't "made up" yet.

In other words, I guess what I'm saying is, if there is a 30-something man reading this who hasn't outed to his wife yet... do it... DO IT NOW! Before it's too late!

[Sinned]

Well I pushed the envelope a little further tonight. M y youngest son and his family and an old friend of MOH's generally come to tea on a Thursday night but my son cried off with man-flu so only our friend came. All of them know I wear a skirt and all of them have seen me in a skirt. I came down to tea from the bedroom in a black above the knee skirt and a purple vest. I got the frosty reception and a sarky comment about the skirt from MOH. I'm laid in bed now and there doesn't seem to be the cold reaction that I was expecting although MOH is downstairs at the mo. I wonder if and when she will realise that, contrary to appearances, I am a mature adult and can think and act for myself. So watch this space.

Post post note - no hysterics, no accusations, no raised voices. n fact everything seems completely normal. Now I am worried.

[moonshadow]

Post post note - no hysterics, no accusations, no raised voices. n fact everything seems completely normal. Now I am worried.

Danger!

Well I pushed the envelope a little further tonight. M y youngest son and his family and an old friend of MOH's generally come to tea on a Thursday night but my son cried off with man-flu so only our friend came. All of them know I wear a skirt and all of them have seen me in a skirt. I came down to tea from the bedroom in a black above the knee skirt and a purple vest. I got the frosty reception and a sarky comment about the skirt from MOH. I'm laid in bed now and there doesn't seem to be the cold reaction that I was expecting although MOH is downstairs at the mo. I wonder if and when she will realise that, contrary to appearances, I am a mature adult and can think and act for myself. So watch this space.

Warning... possible bad advice coming...
In this situation, I just wear the skirts like it or not. Let the chips fall where they will. Granted, men on this site have had a WIDE variety of results with this method, up to, and including divorce and all the drama that goes with that. So.... proceed with caution. You know your personal situation better than anyone else here.

In any event, I'm rooting for ya.

Finally, I can't speak for the others, but as for me, if you think you need to "cool it" for a while, don't think less of yourself. Sometimes it takes baby steps to win someone over.

[Kilty]

I would tread careful if I were you... Perhaps the frequency of your skirting could be taken down a notch, or you could throw kilts in to the mix A woman rarely capitulates and just says its fine after years of opposition unless as the guy above said that she is planning her next move. Perhaps she is equally busy on Mumsnet... most 'cross dressing ' thread there end with the OP being talked into divorce or separation after the 'discomfort' or 'embarrassment' they endure...

[denimini]

Dennis, I think it is a very good strategy to wear skirts in the presence of friends with your OH, because any positive response, lack of surprise or unquestioning acceptance will give a good cue to your OH and also show that her great fear of ridicule (I presume) is unfounded. Hopefully the lack of hostility after such an occasion is a sign of reflection. Good luck.

[Sinned]

Well all, normal relations are proceeding. I do admit that MOH seems to have an ability to compartmentalise tings and I think she has just pushed the episode into the same compartment as my skirting outside. I will try over the next few days to probe her thoughts and try to determine if there is any change in her thinking and perceptions. I made a resolution at the beginning of the year to wear a skirt on odd calendar days and trousers on evens. Of course I haven't kept to that as things come up to stop that happening but I have managed it a good proportion of the time. Naturally she won't accompany me out of the house with me in a skirt but I do try and push the issue frequently and ask her to try it and see what the reactions are but she always refuses and threatens either me or her to just go on her own. I have thought of letting her go on her own and then follow her and meet up with her there and she can't really do much in public. Can she?

But then I want her to be with me with some element of cooperation and willingness so I resist that.

Next instalment soon.

[bobmoore]

I have yet to figure out, in this age of so-called gender equality, why it is that women can do as they please in the matter of dress, but if a man presumes the same right the sky is likely to fall on him.