For Carl (might keep Dillon awake too)

[moonshadow]

Carl,

Saw this and thought about you.... enjoy!

https://youtu.be/0wDtxYeJdzg

-Moon

[crfriend]

Thanks for that, Moon; it made me laugh. However, the machines illustrated are a bit new for my tastes -- I prefer the devices built in the 1960s and '70s as they were faster and more maintainable than the microprocessors of the late '70s and early '80s.

[moonshadow]

However, the machines illustrated are a bit new for my tastes -- I prefer the devices built in the 1960s and '70s as they were faster and more maintainable than the microprocessors of the late '70s and early '80s.

Yeah, I know. Although they were out when I was a child, the earliest computer I ever attempted to use was an Atari that was located at my 2nd or 3rd grade classroom. It was similar in style to the Commodore. Being so young in the 80's (and I was the last generation to be born not knowing how to type), I never really could figure out how to use it. Looking back on it now, it makes perfect sense. But try explaining to 7 or 8 year old how a boot disk works! Especially in an era where most people DON'T have 10 personal computers laying around the house purring 24/7!

A few years later, when I lived in Thaxton VA, my neighbor had a Tandy computer that ran windows 3.1. I knew how to turn it on, and it had it's own bootable hard drive so it didn't need a boot disk. I mostly used paintbrush. I remember sitting at the DOS prompt and just typing "win"..... and suddenly windows would load! I mention that because I thought "win" was some type of password for the computer, as nothing else seemed to work!

The first computer we ever had wouldn't happen until the mid 90's. It was loaded with windows 95, and ran a 133mhz processor with 16MB or ram, and a whopping 2GB hard drive. I don't remember if it had an Ethernet port, but it had a 28.8 modem and we put it online through Bell Atlantic dot net (one of phone companies that merged together to form Verizon.

Not to sound nostalgic.... but the internet sure was cool then.

I take some weird satisfaction in the idea that I might very well be the last person alive who learned how to type on an IBM typewriter.

I also miss floor model television sets. TV's today are just so tacky and gaudy. Those old wooden frame floor models were like part of the furniture. You could place nik-naks on top, pictures, place mats, you name it. They were very elegant electronics. I'd love to have a good, working, floor model TV in my living room. It doesn't even need to have an remote, the knobs are fine.

[dillon]

I had a Commodore once, but it ran Win 95. Sure didnt crash as much as Win 7.

[Big and Bashful]

I started with a BBC model B,
Then an Amiga 500 running Workbench version something or other,
thenj PCs, I remember a 486 SX at 25 MHz I think, followed by many other PC compatables, anyone remember the Cyrix erm 166+ I think?
Now a bit drunk, typinjg this on my best machine, an Intel I5 750, with quad cores running at lots of things per wotsit, with a graphics card running stupid speeds in an unfeasable amount of cores.

It still takes longer to start than my old amoeba 500!

It was running Windows 7, the first OS I have seen that seemed more rteliable than Windows XP, recedntly upgrqaded to Windows 10. I have only seen Win 10 broken once, when Elite Dangerous threw a major wobbly. Yes, I have had to make some changes with the move to Win 10, but on the whole I am very impressed with its stability.

Sorry about the alcoholic who typed this, I will now go and have some steak pie, and wash it down with more red wine, it is a New Year after all! Hic!

[stevelous]

Started off with a Sinclair (Timex) ZX81 with 1k ram I loved it and tried my hand at programming it. Dodgy ram packs were available but had an unfortunate habit of wobbling thus loosing all work done. Instant backup was not possible usingba cassette recorder. Software had to be compact and although 8 bit and around 1MHz it had ok performance.

Next was a Sinclair Spectrum 16k not a bad machine but was let down by its rubber keyboard. Still the cassette tape recorder, the 'microdrive' was expensive and unreliable. Still with all that it was a good machine. Like the ZX81 programming neede to be compact due to ram size and the baud rate from the cassette interface.

Fast forwards to today, I have a old P4 3.2GHz 4 Gb ram 350Gb sata HDD. I cannot program it, microsoft bloatware running it, takes ages to boot, uses a lot of electrical power and can be noisy. If it goes wrong I can fix it provided the parts needed are available, but at what cost?

Sadly I no longer have my old Sinclair machines.

[Big and Bashful]

I managed to get my Amiga back, but last time I tried I couldn't get a picture on the monitor, not sure if it was the monitor or the computer at fault, I tried to get into it to see if there were any problems with corrosion, but one of the case screws is seized, I fear the worst, must have another go to see if I can get it working again, just for old times sake!

[pelmut]

My earliest programming experience was on a mainframe running AlgolW, with the programs on Hollerith cards and the data logged on punched tape. I 'progressed' via. a Sinclair ZX81 to a BBC and BASIC. The next step was a choice of Windows or nothing (my employer had been drawn into an exclusive contract which I suspect was illegal), Windows was so dreadful that I chose nothing, abandoned digital and went back to analogue. Have since returned to digital with various Apple Macs and re-learned programming in Applescript and PHP.

[Big and Bashful]

As an apprentice, not sure what order I did these in now, but I had the pleasure of the following:

FORTRAN on a mainframe, also covering some compound stress analysis on what must have been a very early CAD package.
Very simple BASIC programming on a mainframe Sheffield Polytechnic had, using teletype terminals, i.e. clanking on paper instead of a VDU.
BASIC programming on an Apple IIe, building a programme to analyse the results output from a Moore 3D measuring machine. (Our apprentice school was in a gauge factory and calibration lab).
Z80 machine code programming on a microprocessor board (2 blocks of 256 bytes of ram, loaded by setting out each byte on a row of 8 switches).
At home, once they got the early bugs out of the BBC micro, I bought a bodel B and spent a lot of time programming it in the very effective BASIC it had.

More recently I have no idea how to use Visual Basic or any of the modern languages, but have built several relational databases in (first) SQL, then more recently using Microsoft Access.

These days the IT control freaks do not want anyone building their own databases, so we have to get by on fudges using spreadsheets, so instead of programming or doing serious work on computers, Word, Excel and Powerpoint are the tools at work, while at home Facebook, this forum, various train, submarine, space, bus and trucking simulators help me waste my time!

[crfriend]

These days the IT control freaks do not want anyone building their own databases, so we have to get by on fudges using spreadsheets, so instead of programming or doing serious work on computers, Word, Excel and Powerpoint are the tools at work, while at home Facebook, this forum, various train, submarine, space, bus and trucking simulators help me waste my time!

And, thus, we turn from creators to consumers and the machine itself loses much, if not most, of its magic and allure.

I can still function in well over a dozen assemblers and have forgotten more high (and "higher") level languages than most will learn in a lifetime. I have formal instruction in COBOL, FORTRAN, and BASIC although I prefer ALGOL and its descendants (including C) more than anything else. I used to work with over a dozen operating systems but now find myself wrangling Linux (most other variants of UNIX having descended into oblivion) and Windows (spit!) (even though windows is "VMS - The Next Generation" -- nice kernel; cr@p user interface).

Given what passes for computers today, I find it easy to understand why folks today are sceptical that men ever walked on the moon. An iPad has more than enough raw power to accomplish all the computational objectives with lots of energy to spare, but we can't get at it to do anything useful (unless, that is, one considers checking his "Facebook status" useful). My, what a dream it was! I should have become a plumber.

[Judah14]

More recently I have no idea how to use Visual Basic or any of the modern languages, but have built several relational databases in (first) SQL, then more recently using Microsoft Access.

These days the IT control freaks do not want anyone building their own databases, so we have to get by on fudges using spreadsheets, so instead of programming or doing serious work on computers, Word, Excel and Powerpoint are the tools at work, while at home Facebook, this forum, various train, submarine, space, bus and trucking simulators help me waste my time!

I suggest you try to learn Python to get started with programming. It is a programming language that has syntax that is easy on newbies and similar to other languages such as C. it is available for various operating systems such as GNU/Linux, Windows and Mac.

[moonshadow]

An iPad has more than enough raw power to accomplish all the computational objectives with lots of energy to spare, but we can't get at it to do anything useful (unless, that is, one considers checking his "Facebook status" useful). My, what a dream it was! I should have become a plumber.

A plumber? Well you might not see much computing in that field, but in mine, I run into what we might consider "old school computing" all of the time. As far as personal desktop computers, well yeah, most people use them for things that in all reality are an utter waste of time. However is it really fair to say that desktop computers are totally useless? Consider the advances in financial management that comes from using a personal desktop computer. Even in my lifetime, I can remember when it would take sometimes a week for a check to clear the bank, and thus a bill would be considered "paid". Now, the only bill I write a check for is the rent. Everything else is paid electronically, for free. Saving stamps, time, and also makes my bank book easier to keep up with. The water flows, the lights are on, and the internet stays connected all from accounts that are paid every month by the very screen I'm typing on now. But it's more than just paying bills. I can view the history of my accounts. That's how I know my electric bill was less for December 2015 than 2014, and I don't have to keep mountains of files in a drawer. I can make account changes, I can remember a time when it seemed like people just spent HOURS on hold waiting to speak to customer service representatives about different things. Now 95% of what ever I need to change on an account, that 15 years ago would have meant a phone call during business hours, and sitting on hold forever can be accomplished in minutes, at 2AM on a Sunday.

Thanks to modern computer technology, we, having zero television reception over the air, were actually able to watch "the ball drop" on Times Square using a free app on my cell phone, and watched it stream live through chrome cast. The only difference vs watching it over the air, or on cable or satellite was there was no commercials! And it cost nothing, yep, was 100% free of charge. Well, except you have to have high speed internet, which does cost a little, but we already had that anyway. I can remember cable bills running over $100 per month. Now thanks to high speed, cell phones (little computers), and chrome cast.... we save over a thousand dollars per year just watching stuff online over our TV set. Most news cast have live feeds if one desires to watch the 6PM news every day. There are countless services that provide movie rentals over streaming that can be cast to your TV set. No more driving to Blockbuster, to view only what the store is limited to. Oh and no more REWIND FEE'S!

But everything I just mentioned is all thanks to the advancement of the "personal computer". Computer's of the old day are still being used, and believe it or not, still being built, and are finding homes in the most modern of machines and equipment! While they may not be carbon copies of some of the systems mentioned in this thread, they still do what computers essentially do.... count zero's and one's. You don't have to look hard to find some of this more basic style computer, and it's programming. If you have a microwave oven, or a cook stove (range) built in the last 20 years, chances are you've got computer's you didn't realize you had. Most of your electronics, such as your TV, DVD player, and even your VCR (if you still use one) are little computers that each perform a task that makes something useful happen. Virtually everyone in the developed world drives, or at least rides in some type of automobile at some point. Pretty much every vehicle still on the road today (aside from really old antiques) employ some type of computer to make it go. To decide the firing pattern of the cylinders, how rich or lean to run the fuel mixture, fuel economy, etc.

In my field, computer controllers are used all of the time, and I'm not just talking about glorified timers either. Our chicken fryers use on board computer controllers to keep the temperature set, as well as time the product, and they also work a basket lift. Some controllers on certain fryers, like those built by the Henny Penny line will actually drain the oil, polish it, close the drain valve, refill it, and top it off with fresh oil if need be. It prompts the user (employee) to polish the oil after so many cook cycles, and if the employee refuses (as many minimum wage workers do) it can be programmed to lock out the fryer's operation until a manager comes around the release it. The Henny Penny controllers are by far the coolest fryer controllers I've ever worked with, and I'd love to see my current employer start using them. They sound like an old school arcade when they are going off, all kinds of beeps and noises. Most of you who have ever been in a Wendy's or McDonalds may have at some point heard these machines doing their thing. Our rack ovens (bread ovens), convection ovens, steamers, dishwashers, hot bars, virtually everything we use in the kitchen has some type of computer, or solid state controller. Only our oldest french fryers use all mechanical controls.

In our stores, we have scales, which are the closest thing to old school computers that you all might recognize. The old Hobart SP1500 scales (1980's technology) and Quantum (1990's) used an operating system what was built and designed by Hobart. They performed what we might more consider "traditional" computer task, above all, weighing a product, and assigning a final price depending on weight. They can, and many do use a network to download price changes from corporate. I remember from my days of working on them, the Quantums actually had no hard drive, and all PLU's were stored in essentially RAM memory. A small battery pack, that looked like something out of an old cordless phone kept the RAM energized so it wouldn't loose all of it's product codes in the event of external power failure. A little ePROM kept the scale's core operation system in tact. But reverting the scale back to all factory defaults was a simple as disconnecting the battery and plugging it back in.

Most commercial food equipment, even today uses computer technology that as pretty much been around since the 70's and 80's. After all, we're not asking it to land a space shuttle, or even pay a bill online, but simply cook chicken, or weigh a pound of meat. But the point remains that old classic style computer can and does have a home in our modern world.

Then there's the solar flare.... and everything I typed above grinds to a halt. But not to worry! Moon Shadow can make the chicken cook, because he will simply rig it with one of these....

tstat.jpg

So as you can see..... modern computers are good for more than pointless status updates on facebook!
And even facebook, and the computer's that drive them have been known to overthrow entire regimes!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_ ... on_of_2011

[Elisabetta]

I actually think any type computer is good. It's how Moon and I met 14 years ago.

[moonshadow]

And, while waiting for my van to warm up, I went ahead and renewed our car tags for the year, (they expire at the end of January). Using my computer and the DMV website. Not long ago this would have involved an absolutely DREADFUL trip to the Virginia DMV, which most people would rather endure an a_s beating than to visit that office! Myself included!

[crfriend]

A plumber?

Yes, a plumber -- one with a speciality in refrigeration and process cooling. Every so often I get asked why I say that, and I tell them that it's actually quite simple -- refrigeration specialists usually don't have to keep constantly looking over their shoulders in expectation of the next layoff; they're unlikely to be replaced by an H1-B holder from India who's willing to work at half the going wage; and they're entirely likely to call a lot of the shots in their own job. A "STEM" (acronym: Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics) professional winds up insanely deeply in debt to pick up a piece of paper that he'll need even before he sees a dime in income, faces a constant threat of getting his job "offshored", getting laid off, or replaced by an H1-B; typically has a Dilbert-style "pointy-haired boss", and has to foot continual bills for "education" to keep him "certified" in the latest "advances" in technology. It's a losing game for the individual; the only winners in this field are schools (increasingly for-profit), vendors, and the H1-B holders. Why would anyone sane go into a field like that?

Well you might not see much computing in that field, but in mine, I run into what we might consider "old school computing" all of the time. As far as personal desktop computers, well yeah, most people use them for things that in all reality are an utter waste of time. However is it really fair to say that desktop computers are totally useless?

They're not totally useless, but how often does one see such a machine actually used for creating new things or piquing somebody's interest to the point of writing a simulation of a problem from scratch. Modern ones don't even come shipped with any sort of general-purpose programming language; one has to get into the nitty-gritty of the Linux or the low-level (and I do not use that term in a bad way here) world of things like Arduinos and Raspberry Pis. Neither Apple nor Microsoft have shipped anything like a general-purpose language for their systems in decades. BASIC even eventually disappeared from DOS installations.

The other applications mentioned have more to do with communication than computing, and in this role, the computer has become little more than an advanced telephone with a screen and keyboard -- viz "TeleText" from the '80s or the plethora of "BBS" (Bulletim Board Systems) which once were a thriving community. In this, the computer definitely has a role, but it's not one where the human actively participates in the programming process.

Modern cars are infested with (electronic) computers, but that's also come at a very high and dangerous price with automotive-control systems that can be cracked and hijacked by third-parties without the driver's knowledge or consent. (Old cars had computers, too, they were just mechanical in nature, e.g. a distributor and its spark-advance mechanism.)

I lament the passing of the time when folks who acquired computers were actually curious about how the machines worked, wrote programs that made the machines do interesting things, and learned from the process. That is largely gone now, and the computer luser [sic] (the leading "l" is silent) of today uses his machine more like a telephone, a fax machine, or occasionally an arcade device. Gone is the curiosity and the wonder -- and we are vastly poorer for that loss.

And even facebook, and the computer's that drive them have been known to overthrow entire regimes!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_ ... on_of_2011

And where, precisely, is Egypt now? Are they better off or worse?