"Unisex". Let's just stop it.

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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crfriend
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"Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by crfriend »

Several posts have recently appeared featuring the notion of "unisex" garments, mostly under the context of clothes for children -- which is entirely appropriate -- and which have been "bent" somewhat in an attempt to include adult behavior and style.

First and foremost, "unisex" is an entirely loaded term. On the face of it, it's innocent enough, but in practice it's historically used as a way to turn women into second-class men. I went digging in the recesses of my mind (where it's usually not advised to tread, mind) as to when the term first arose, and I recalled that it was some time in the late 1960s. That said, precisely the only use of the term concerned attempts to get male-styles (be it clothes, hair, or whatnot) accepted on women -- I have never seen the term inverted to get women's style clothes (or hairstyles or anything else) accepted on guys.

If Wikipedia is to believed on the matter, the term was first used in 1968 in an issue of Life magazine. I found this interesting, as it dovetails quite nicely with my own memories (In 1968, I was seven years of age). Hilariously, the Wikipedia entry goes on to state, which I find completely apropro,
Eventually, the 1960s can be considered the decade in which “unisex” and “unisex clothing” became widely spread. The “unisex” trend arose in response to the youth revolution and the hippie movement of the 1960s and the women’s liberation movement of the early 1970s. However, this trend can be considered a more recent form of the aforementioned fashionable clothing, because it confirms a traditional feminine role subservient to the masculine role given the fact that “unisex clothing”, mostly, represents women wearing (altered) men’s clothing.
So, let's just discontinue the use of the term, shall we? It does us no good, and can be ultimately considered demeaning to our sisters.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by DenIM »

I’m not sure that I understand the Wikipedia entry. If we, men, are using the term “Unisex Clothing” to describe/categorise or represent men wearing (altered) women’s clothing does that mean that us men confirm that the male role is now subservient to the women’s?

I have never considered in-equality between the sexes to be represented by clothing other than women appear to be able to wear what they want and men can’t. I just don’t see how stating an item of clothing as suitable to be worn by both sexes as Unisex is derogatory or demeaning to women. Clearly I am missing a point here. Please help.

If the term Unisex is becoming unacceptable we are going to have to come up with another phrase and the obvious replacement of Bi-sexual doesn't seem to fit right either.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by Sinned »

The prefix "uni-" signifies "one" so is there a prefix that signifies "all" or "any"? "ultra-" is probably not the best example "ultrasex" sounds more like a marathon activity!? Not in the best frame of mind for thinking as I am due at the dentist this morning to have three roots removed and a plate fitted. So some help please?
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by Kirbstone »

Speaking from 'behind the mask', Dennis, I'm confident the dental procedure will be conducted without any distress to you, but after the numbness wears off the plate is bound (initially) to prove uncomfortable somewhere and require adjustment. Also the gums over the extracted roots will change shape in the coming months and the plate will then need further adjustment.....sez he, knowledgeably!

I wish you well with it, anyway, and in view of the current ambient temperatures, perhaps a floor sweeper would be in order?

Tom.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by skirtingtoday »

Carl,

The last paragraph of the Wiki entry states," Today, a common mode of unisex clothing may be a costume made up of shirt, pants or both as these articles are considered appropriate for either gender in western society. Both men and women wear shirt and pants on regular basis in the western world and it has become quite a fashion favourite despite feminine style clothing maintaining a secure place in female fashion."

I think all we are doing here on this forum is trying to add skirts to the general wear of both sexes and not just the common mode of unisex clothing - "shirt and pants" - as being a further item of "clothing appropriate for either gender".
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by crfriend »

DenIM wrote:I have never considered in-equality between the sexes to be represented by clothing other than women appear to be able to wear what they want and men can’t. I just don’t see how stating an item of clothing as suitable to be worn by both sexes as Unisex is derogatory or demeaning to women. Clearly I am missing a point here. Please help.
The problem here is that the term has historically been used as a one-way option: women adopting the looks and styles of (the "superior") male. It has, to the best of my knowledge, never been used either equally or in the opposite direction. Recall than when men started sporting long hair it wasn't termed "unisex" at all, save for every once in a while when it was considered a dig.

I'm not saying that the term is "unacceptable", I'm saying that it's an incorrect term -- sociologically -- for us even if it is lexically correct.
Sinned wrote:The prefix "uni-" signifies "one" so is there a prefix that signifies "all" or "any"?
Off the top of my head, "pan-" is probably the closest, but the use of the root and suffix combined with that produces another incorrect result (pansexual -- encompassing characteristics of all sexes) that I'm not particularly happy with, either. My line of reasoning indicates that we should drop the notion of clothing style being tied to one sex altogether and just never mention the notion -- expunge the concept from our vocabulary, and help thereby to purge it from the general populace's. It's not a notion that does anybody any good, and, as evidenced in this space, it causes some folks quite a lot of grief (mainly at the hands, attitudes, and words of those closest to them). I believe the correct approach is to jettison the notion completely.

The gals needed a word to "justify" their raids into men's closets. I don't think we're going to be able to get away with that, and more than we cooked up a word for when some of us decided to let our hair grow out. We don't have the luxury of words, so we need to make a decisive stab at the root of the problem and let things fall where they may. Attempts to reuse/repurpose a word isn't going to cut it.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by crfriend »

skirtingtoday wrote:I think all we are doing here on this forum is trying to add skirts to the general wear of both sexes and not just the common mode of unisex clothing - "shirt and pants" - as being a further item of "clothing appropriate for either gender".
That's quite right. At issue is what we're driving at is the antithesis of the way in which the word "unisex" has historically been used which makes it entirely inaccurate to describe our end-game. We either need another word (which'll get co-opted in no time flat, I suspect, for something else) or we need to reject the notion of single-sex garb entirely.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by Couya »

The first uses of "unisex" that I remember applied to hairdressing salons (previously feminine) that began catering for men when we wore our hair long and liked to keep it tidy. The military "short-back-&-sides" that I grew up with was unacceptable for the under 30s, and the male barbers that had been administering this tasteless fashion had no idea how to style longer hair and probably had to look for a different job.
Hairdresers still call their salons unisex in France and Spain.

As a linguist, I always disliked the term. Calling an article or establishment "unisex" can only be appropriate if it pertain to one sex only. Women's hair salons and clothing have traditionally always been unisex, not used by men.
The word for anything suitable for both sexes would be "ambisex" (just as ambidextrous describes a peson who can use either hand with equal dexterity.
We may regard our open garments as ambisex, but not many other men do! Whereas bifurcated garments have definitely become ambisex.

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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by pelmut »

Couya wrote:[...]
The word for anything suitable for both sexes would be "ambisex" (just as ambidextrous describes a peson who can use either hand with equal dexterity.
I agree that "unisex" is an inappropriate term for several reasons, but "ambisex", as a substitute, fails for the same reasons in many cases.

As far as I can see, the only garments that could qualify as "ambisex" are those whose shape is usually determined by the secondary sexual charactistics of the wearer, such as a jock strap or a brassiere. Where the shape of the clothes is usually determined by society's association of that type of garment with a particular gender, the correct term should be "ambigender" (or "ambi-gender" to avoid mispronunciation).
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by Stu »

It would be a great pity if we dwelled upon the semantics of the term "unisex". In my present job, I lecture on the intricacies of semantics to both undergrads and postgrads - and I write academic papers on it. While I like my job, I prefer to forget about semantics when I come here and then we can focus on the issues that really concern us.

As this has been raised, I will put on my "linguist's hat" and address the issue of this particular lexeme. Any word, including "unisex", can be analysed and defined according to a range of parameters. A morphologist would break the word down, as others have done, and look at the component morphemes and construct an aggregated meaning from "uni" and "sex". A semanticist would look at the word in relation to its denotation and connotations, and its relations with other words. An etymologist would consider the antecedents of the word to arrive at a meaning and suggest ""sexually indistinguishable or neutral" as a result of its earliest and therefore original usage. A lexicologist might use a linguistic corpus in order to establish how the word is currently used in a range of contexts. In normal conversation, I would opt for the latter - and, if in any doubt, I would dig out a recent and reliable dictionary and use the definition that it proffered. In this case, the Oxford Dictionary of English, 2003, page 1927, defines "unisex" thus:

adjective (especialy of clothing or hairstyles) designed to be suitable for both sexes.

That is the denotation according to current usage as determined by a respected source, so I think we should go with that.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by wsherman »

I agree with Stu about the word "unisex" but having said that I can also see grounds for moving away from using "sex" and "gender" as they can convey more at times than is needed. IMHO. How about using something like "pan-clothing" to denote apparel that is suitable for all?

A long time ago I was involved with hammering out by-laws and a constitution for a statewide organization and I very well remember the headaches the drafting caused whilst trying to keep the meaning and intent clear to all who read it. I fear that even with the committee's best effort there were still misunderstandings but that is the wonder and curse of the language which can be precise and nebulous almost at the same time like English. Or should I say American English? I submit that when a spoken language stops changing it is well on it's way to being a dead language.


One last thing remember that men and women are different and long live the difference! LOL!

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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by Sinned »

Speaking from 'behind the mask', Dennis, I'm confident the dental procedure will be conducted without any distress to you, but after the numbness wears off the plate is bound (initially) to prove uncomfortable somewhere and require adjustment. Also the gums over the extracted roots will change shape in the coming months and the plate will then need further adjustment.....sez he, knowledgeably!

I wish you well with it, anyway, and in view of the current ambient temperatures, perhaps a floor sweeper would be in order?

Tom.
Tm, The extractions were not without difficulty as one of the front ones was broken hear the gum and the extraction tool ( pliers? ) kept slipping and the tooth wasn't giving up easily!!!! Having said that it is the molar area that is the sorest ( doesn't hurt enough for paracetamol ). The plate doesn't fit quite right and if I push down on the gum part it raises slightly on the rear of the palette. But my dentist said that the gums will be swollen and the fit not quite right until that swelling goes down. She also said that if it needs adjustment to give her a ring and make an appointment. It's just what I would expect really and time will sort things out. Soup for tea tonight I think.

As for my attire - a black Dunlop collared shirt, short black skirt with thick tights and a black jacket. She said that it looked fine. I nearly wore a bright yellow short skirt but changed at the last minute.

As for the terminology I give up.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by pelmut »

Stu wrote:It would be a great pity if we dwelled upon the semantics of the term "unisex". ...
At the risk of dragging this on a little longer, both parts of the word are incorrect and we need to make an effort to change it; common mis-use is no justification for complacency.

The use of 'uni' where the word actually means 'ambi or 'omni ' has already been pointed out. What is much more important to this group is the mis-use of the word 'sex', where gender is the real factor at work. A lot of the problems discussed in this forum revolve around the inability of partners and members of the public to make a distinction between gender and sex - and to erroneously link the style of outer garments with the sexual orientation of the wearer. (Worse still, in some cases there seems to be a belief that wearing a skirt can somehow change the sexual orientation or even the sex of the wearer).

We should take the opportunity to correct the misuse of words associated with our own particular field of interest whenever the opportunity arises, so as to help to dispel some of the ignorance that is holding back our cause.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by Kirbstone »

Dennis,
Glad you're over the worst and things should settle down in the next few weeks.

As to terminology, the 'pliers' are forceps and most recalcitrant roots move easily on the application of an elevator, or straight lever rather like a flat screwdriver. Anyway, that's by-the-way now, but I'm surprised she didn't book you a check visit in a week as a matter of course.

I wouldn't dare wear anything loud like bright yellow!

Tom.
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Re: "Unisex". Let's just stop it.

Post by Darryl »

As a computer geek, my contribution...

Consider Male = 1 and Female = -1 (not 1)

True: Trousers = Absolute (clothing)
True: Skirt = Absolute (clothing)
False: Jockstrap = Absolute (clothing)

Ok...too much time on my hands....
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