"The Boy in The Dress" raises a question.

[geegee]

Watched “The Boy in The Dress” on BBC TV last night, a televised drama of the book by David Walliams and thought it was very well made. One thought did occur to me while I was watching. Dennis (the boy in the dress) did not want to be a girl – he just wanted to be able to wear a dress, because it “made him happy”. Now of course, in the story, he has to disguise himself as a girl to be accepted by those around him. So I got to thinking – how many of those men who “crossdress”, disguise themselves as women to “be accepted” when wearing a skirt or dress, when, if it was acceptable for men to wear a skirt or dress, would not bother trying to present themselves as women? I know this is quite a convoluted thought, but I hope you get what I mean! (Women don’t need to crossdress because, they are accepted in trousers. If wearing trousers carried the same taboo for them as wearing skirts did for men, would we have more female crossdressers?)

[RichardA]

Just seen this and found it on iplayer so I'll watch it tonight.
ps - I don't think in my lifetime it will ever be mainstream for a man to wear a skirt or dress in our western society

[JohnH]

So I got to thinking – how many of those men who “crossdress”, disguise themselves as women to “be accepted” when wearing a skirt or dress, when, if it was acceptable for men to wear a skirt or dress, would not bother trying to present themselves as women?

That thought has occurred to me. I happen to have the body shape of a woman along with my long hair but my voice is anything but feminine (basso profundo with a speaking voice as a cross between Johnny Cash and Joe Friday of Dragnet). With the mindset you mention I feel compelled to dress in conventional male attire because of my voice. It sure would be nice not to have to present as a woman if I decided to wear skirts or dresses.

John

[RichardA]

Absolutely brilliant, that film brought a tear to my eyes and certainly well worth watching.

[Sinned]

I too thought that to wear a skirt you had to emulate the woman as it just hadn't occurred to me ( or MOH ) otherwise. This only lasted a few months as I just couldn't be pestered to deal with make-up ( I am blind in my right eye so how do I put eye stuff on my left eye? ) or wigs or even dresses as I ain't really into them. Not sure if MOH thinks that I haven't really given that stage up and I have difficulty convincing her otherwise. So no I have no desire to dress up like a woman but MOH has convinced herself that because I wear a skirt I do look like a woman and I'm not sure what I can do to change that. I haven't watched TBITD but I have recorded it and will watch it when I get the time. Interestingly MOH has said that she doesn't want to watch it and I can watch it on my own. I feel like I'm gearing up to watch a dirty movie or something.

[STEVIE]

Hi GeeGee,
I haven't seen it, but I can answer the question from experience.
As Sinned said, to wear a skirt or dress ,one must "impersonate" a female. It's very easily ingrained.
I actually grew up with that notion,from age 5 that I know of, and 3 as I've been told by an older sister.
Off and on it took me all these years to get to the truth of the matter and the "Cafe" played a very large part.
Thanks to that,wider information and things like Walliam's creation, others will have a better time of it.
As to you're original question, the answer will be some, no more and no less.
This is not salacious, but I'd also bet there's a connection here for some mens' "fascination" with female school uniform.
I know I suffered that particular "envy" for quite a few years of my life.
What I'd like to see in my own lifetime is for clothing to become totally de-gendered and accepted as such.
Time will only tell.
Steve.

[Caultron]

I know that as for me, I'm much happier appearing in public as a man in a skirt than I would be trying to carry out a full female impersonation.

That's partly because I don't think I could bring off the impersonation convincingly at all, but also because I enjoy both being a male and wearing a skirt.

I wish skirts weren't so socially associated with femininity but that's a trend I'm willing to buck. I mean, it's all just fabric.

[Reaper_Man]

I too thought that to wear a skirt you had to emulate the woman as it just hadn't occurred to me ( or MOH ) otherwise. This only lasted a few months as I just couldn't be pestered to deal with make-up ( I am blind in my right eye so how do I put eye stuff on my left eye? ) or wigs or even dresses as I ain't really into them.

i too am blind in my right eye and putting on make up is a nightmare but i am also a goth and thus make-up is part of the goth look, i don't do much, just a touch of eye shadow etc as it is a bit of a ball ache, as for dresses i love them, whether goth or otherwise but i don't wear them to look like a woman, i wear them because 1. they are very comfortable to wear, 2. they look bloody good, and 3. because the choice of clothing in the mens section (including goth clothes) is pretty limited and quite boring

however i have on a couple of occasions worn a wig and dressed to look somewhat female(make up etc but never fake boobs or padding to around the hips etc), but all in the name of fun, it's not how i want to look, i much prefer to look like a man wearing a dress or skirt and for people to recognise me as a man in a dress/skirt and not a cross dresser.

[JohnH]

For Halloween I wore a black dress with 3 1/2 inch pumps. I do have real breasts (D cup) and hips along with hair that hangs below my shoulders so I looked very much like a genetic woman. I also wore makeup. However the illusion of a real woman disappears when I speak with my deep masculine voice. I refuse to raise my speaking voice to complete the illusion of a woman since my voice is a part of me.

[Added section] I guess I might work on my voice so I can wear what I want. So this added section is a contradiction of the last sentence I wrote above. [End added section]

John

[r.m.anderson]

I would never be able to pull off the "Full Monty" - I just ain't built that way.
Now as for the bottom half that is rather easy as long as I do not push the
envelope with tight crotch exposing clothing and of course odd vibrant
pastel colors (Think PINK especially NEON).
Dresses - NO - skirts kilts and skorts - YES - in passive mundane colors.

Having been raised in a religious military environ there was always an envy
for what the other side wore. My side was so prefixed in wearing a uniform.
A ridged Dress Code was always in place and you dare not upset the
authorities be they Mom/Dad - school teachers - Principal - Headmaster etc.

Not all the hunky dory stuff this movie represents and another commented
else where in this forum "The Dress Code".

Like another Anderson poster - no doubt will not see the regular application
of skirted (dress) in our life time. Even kilts which I wear frequently are
getting to be so passe'.

[neiljerram]

So I got to thinking – how many of those men who “crossdress”, disguise themselves as women to “be accepted” when wearing a skirt or dress, when, if it was acceptable for men to wear a skirt or dress, would not bother trying to present themselves as women?

I would guess lots, as I've also had the corresponding train of thought, i.e. would it be easier to try to present fully as a woman, in order to wear what I want to wear, rather than going around as a man in a skirt? In my case I've never actually tried that, and I guess that it would be pretty unsuccessful!

By the way, I also enjoyed 'The Boy in the Dress' (as did MOH), except that I wasn't really happy with the denouement being forced by the headmaster being a cross-dresser too.

[JohnH]

I would guess lots, as I've also had the corresponding train of thought, i.e. would it be easier to try to present fully as a woman, in order to wear what I want to wear, rather than going around as a man in a skirt?

I guess I do need to present fully as a woman to wear what I want to wear. Even when I wear a plaid shirt, jeans, and boat shoes I still get ma'amed on a regular basis. Only thing I have to work on would be my voice since I have a deep masculine speaking voice.

John

[crfriend]

Even when I wear a plaid shirt, jeans, and boat shoes I still get ma'amed on a regular basis. Only thing I have to work on would be my voice since I have a deep masculine speaking voice.

Have you contemplated a mustache or even (gasp!) a beard? Those are usually dead giveaways before anyone has to open their mouth to speak.

[Caultron]

I guess I do need to present fully as a woman to wear what I want to wear. Even when I wear a plaid shirt, jeans, and boat shoes I still get ma'amed on a regular basis. Only thing I have to work on would be my voice since I have a deep masculine speaking voice.

How did you come to have D-cup breasts and wide hips? Were they your choice, as the long hair is?

And yet, if it all was your decision, you still wish to be perceived as male. Is that right?

It must be quite contradicting to have D-cup breasts and yet wish to be perceived as male. Would you care to expound on that?

In any event, you can always wear what you want to wear. It may take a few seconds for people to detect and accept your nature but that's their problem, not yours.

(Pardon in advance if any of this is too inquisitive. It just seems you're living with a fair number of contradictions and I find that interesting.)

[JohnH]

I don't care how people perceive me if I am a male or female. So I see no need at all to butch up my appearance. Now I have always had wide hips since puberty and as far as the breasts are concerned, under the thread Let's Talk Gender, I posted on Wed Dec 31, 2014 the reason for the breasts.

http://www.skirtcafe.org/forums/viewtop ... 1&start=15

It's fun to get ma'amed and then when I talk, "Oh, sorry Sir!" It's also fun in a choral situation to be the second bass with my appearance along with men who have traditional appearances who sing baritone or tenor.

John