A kilt is not a skirt?

[Caultron]

ok since this is a question ive had for a while, would this be a kilt or a skirt??

http://www.landsend.com/pp/StylePage-43 ... id=5626009

I'd say no belt loops, not a man's kilt. But your opinion may vary.

[pelmut]

Really, all common sense tells even the most barely rational/reasonable individual that there is no logical reason why men can't wear skirts, and even our English language proves this!

To those who insist the kilt is not a skirt, who are they kidding?

This is the crux of the matter, they are trying to distance themselves from the common perceptions that wearing a skirt = dressing like a woman and a man dressing like a woman is something abhorrent. Both perceptions are false, but so deeply engrained that most people have never questioned them. Underlying all of that are two more false perceptions: binary sex and binary gender.

There is a huge amount of baggage behind that one obvious semantic error which most kilt-wearers deliberately choose to make.

[Big and Bashful]

ok since this is a question ive had for a while, would this be a kilt or a skirt??

http://www.landsend.com/pp/StylePage-43 ... id=5626009

I'd say no belt loops, not a man's kilt. But your opinion may vary.

Sorry, totally wrong there, most of my skirts have belt loops, all or most of my denim skirts and maybe half of my others. My first tailor made kilt does not have belt loops, I had to specify them as an option on my latest kilt. Utilikilts and other peoples versions do have belt loops, pockets etc, but I know there are kilt wearers around who would say that they aren't "proper" kilts.

I think I would describe a kilt as a knee length skirt, heavy pleating at the back and with the double apron arrangement at the front, normaly tartan and made of wool, but with as many variations as there are types of dog!

[skirtyscot]

I'd say no belt loops, not a man's kilt. But your opinion may vary.

Now that is a fine distinction to make!

So knee-length, tartan, heavily pleated, wraps left over right, all the usual including belt loops and you have a man's kilt; but take away those teeny tiny belt loops and you have a women's kilt. Really? That is perhaps even pickier than the "which way does the zip opening face?" test!

[Jock]

As well as several traditional kilts and an urban cotton one, I also have a few pleated skirts in various materials. They are in various colours but not tartan. However, people still call them kilts when talking to me, so it would seen that any pleated skirt worn by a man is a kilt in the eyes of the world.
I seem to recall that "kilt" means pleated anyway(?) so perhaps they are right

I'm just off for my favorite Scottish dessert - Tart 'n custard!

[Sinned]

B&B, I have just done a search on ebay.co.uk for "kilts", and I know that it is maybe the seller's trying to get the maximum exposure to searches, but the results I have got bear no relation to any of the definitions posted. Anything that is vaguely pleated, has any tartan on it, looks like a skirt, says it's pleated when it isn't, has a pattern on it, hasn't a pattern on it, has the overlap apron or hasn't the overlap apron seems to conform to the description of kilt. At least in the "women's clothing" section. Look in the "men's clothing" section and the results of the same search produce more traditional items. In view of what's been said does that make sense to you? So now you know!

[skirtingtoday]

I'd say no belt loops, not a man's kilt. But your opinion may vary.

Now that is a fine distinction to make!

So knee-length, tartan, heavily pleated, wraps left over right, all the usual including belt loops and you have a man's kilt; but take away those teeny tiny belt loops and you have a women's kilt. Really? That is perhaps even pickier than the "which way does the zip opening face?" test!

I didn't realise that a kilt without belt loops is a ladies one. My own one (costing some £300) and doesn't have any belt loops, is therefore a ladies kilt? I don't think so!

More likely is the right over left wrap for it to be a ladies kilt (and it is usually shorter as well)

And as for which way the zip faces, I have a denim mini skirt (14" from e-bay) and a longer length denim skirt from M&S (approx 20") both of which have the zip at the front the "man's" way, so they must be a men's skirts... Good for M&S!

[Big and Bashful]

B&B, I have just done a search on ebay.co.uk for "kilts", and I know that it is maybe the seller's trying to get the maximum exposure to searches, but the results I have got bear no relation to any of the definitions posted. Anything that is vaguely pleated, has any tartan on it, looks like a skirt, says it's pleated when it isn't, has a pattern on it, hasn't a pattern on it, has the overlap apron or hasn't the overlap apron seems to conform to the description of kilt. At least in the "women's clothing" section. Look in the "men's clothing" section and the results of the same search produce more traditional items. In view of what's been said does that make sense to you? So now you know!

As we are discussing kilts, I assumed that we were discussing kilts as in the tartan skirt worn by Scottish men (and Cornish, and Irish, and me) and it's derivatives as opposed to the Womens side of the aisle, where anything tartan gets accused of being a kilt.

Drifting off topic, I have just realised that since Midas dissappeared, I have been struggling to find a decent cargo skirt with a 44" waist and have started using jeans instead because I don'r want to wear out the cargo skirts I have got. Woe is me!

[Caultron]

...I didn't realise that a kilt without belt loops is a ladies one. My own one (costing some £300) and doesn't have any belt loops, is therefore a ladies kilt? I don't think so! ...

OK, there are always exceptions. All generalizations are false (tee-hee). But the narrow button-up waistband in the photo made it look like a skirt rather than a kilt to me.

[STEVIE]

Caultron,
Well said, and speaking as a Scot, the modern "Kilt" is nowhere near as "traditional" as some people would have you believe.
I wore the Nukilt on Friday night at a typical Scottish pub and received nothing but compliments and even some odd deference.
That was with tights on too. The tartan, the sporran, a pseudo tweed jacket and you're in, no problem.
As for the belt loops, if I remember correctly, there were only two at the rear and the sporran chain was also fed through them.
I feed mine through the top waist strap and it stays totally secure.
By the way, the Nukilt is a direct adaptation of a skirt, only difference is the side of the fastening. No one has ever taken me up on that question.
Steve.
One other thing, it doesn't have any pleats.

[skirtyscot]

Drifting off topic, I have just realised that since Midas dissappeared, I have been struggling to find a decent cargo skirt with a 44" waist and have started using jeans instead because I don'r want to wear out the cargo skirts I have got. Woe is me!

Could you take one of your skirts to a seamstress (or seamster, no sexism here on SC!) and get a copy made?

[Kirbstone]

B&B,
I would have thought that a resourceful single-minded chap like yersel' would have purloined ten yards of big-top canvas and taken it to yer local sailmaker so he could run you up a suitable Winter skirt on his loft?! ...with pockets for hands instead of battens and belt loops....for a belt!

Tom

[Milfmog]

Of course a kilt is a skirt. So what?

The unfortunate thing is that it's not a "skirt" to the die-hard kilt-wearer -- and that's where some sensitivity on our part is required. Yes, we know that semantically and by construction kilts are a form of skirt, but by calling them skirts we are causing irritation to kilt-wearers who do not regard their garments as skirts. A bit of respect is required here.

It is rare for me to disagree with Carl; but, from where I stand, a closed mind rarely deserves respect. That is not to say that I would deliberately set out to antagonise a "die hard" kilter, but if they give me grief they should expect a response that, while polite, is not likely to be very respectful.

Have fun,


Ian.

[Big and Bashful]

Drifting off topic, I have just realised that since Midas dissappeared, I have been struggling to find a decent cargo skirt with a 44" waist and have started using jeans instead because I don'r want to wear out the cargo skirts I have got. Woe is me!

Could you take one of your skirts to a seamstress (or seamster, no sexism here on SC!) and get a copy made?

Wish I knew a seamstress, I would if I knew of one around here. As for sail lofts Kirby, well I know one of those however the fabric is a bit harsh!, also I reckons you would need to batten it to stop the wind catching it! spinnaker cloth, now there's a thought! a bit bright for me though. It would probably fly well, but walking into the wind could be awkward. (No comments about spinnaker poles here please!)

[Tor]

Drifting off topic, I have just realised that since Midas dissappeared, I have been struggling to find a decent cargo skirt with a 44" waist and have started using jeans instead because I don'r want to wear out the cargo skirts I have got. Woe is me!

The other possibility is to just wear your skirts and consider the wear they receive incentive to find a way to replace them. Chances are any decent fabric shop will have a few names of folk who would like to duplicate your favourite skirts or even adjusting them even more to you. Patterning an existing skirt will cost a bit, though.