no skirts with children?

[couyalair]

This came up in another thread.
Hazy wrote yesterday that he could not (was no allowed to?) wear skirts when the kids were around.
I wonder why people should think that kids were less open-minded than adults. When my children were young, I was not a full-time skirt wearer, but they frequently saw me in my kilts, and the boy wore one himself occasionally. My grandchildren on the other hand have always seen me unbifurcated, including when taking them to school or meeting them there when necessary, and on a couple of school outings. They never complained, and I never heard of them having any negative feedback from classmates.
Why should we hide things from the young?
Martin

[Hemitom]

A year or two ago I wore a skirt around my best friends kids(10 and 7) and I was never looked at or treated differently by the kids nor the adults. they just know me by Uncle Tom. never asked why or said anything to why I was wearing.. its all in how the kids are raised. I just wish more people would/could accept the fact that skirts are becoming mainstream....I hope.

[Caultron]

...Hazy wrote yesterday that he could not (was no allowed to?) wear skirts when the kids were around.
I wonder why people should think that kids were less open-minded than adults...

It could very well be the reverse. The parents might be concerned that their children's sex roles, conventions, and/or preferences are still highly in flux, and so the parents are unwilling to expose them to, uh, variations.

One could argue whether the parents are justified in this but in the end, the way they raise their kids is their decision.

[Sinned]

Cltrn,

I sort of agree with you there. I can wear my skirts around my grand-daughters because, I think that they've seen me many times in one. But MOH objects to wearing a skirt around my grand-son even though he has seen me in one. I think that in my wife's mind the girls wear a skirt but my grand-son probably won't and to see me in one might encourage him. The fact that he heasn't batted an eyelid at me in a skirt seems irrelevant. Kids don't have the societal or emotional baggage that us adults do and hence aren't as critical.

[Caultron]

As if seeing you in a skirt would teach your grandson that it's OK or desirable for him to wear one. Which your MOH thinks is not? Is that it?

To me that seems misguided, paranoid, or both, and it seems to indicate some disapproval of your wearing as skirt as well. But if that's the way your MOH sees it, I guess she's entitled to her opinion.

It doesn't sound as if she's actually stopping you being skirted with your grandson, though; is that right? Because you grandson does see you skirted when you take him to school, meet him there, or accompany him on school outings. And neither the grandson's parents nor the school officials object?

I mean, is this sort of thing really so perverted?

[skirtyscot]

Cltrn,

I sort of agree with you there. I can wear my skirts around my grand-daughters because, I think that they've seen me many times in one. But MOH objects to wearing a skirt around my grand-son even though he has seen me in one.

That doesn't make sense to me. The cat is out of the bag; the boy has seen you in a skirt, with no ill effects. Surely if you were to stop wearing them in front of him now, he would be more likely to conclude that there was something wrong with it.

My wife and children don't object to being seen with me skirted around people who have seen me skirted before. Once the first skirted encounter with each new person is over and done with, with no calamitous reactions, a bad response gets less and less likely each time.

[partlyscot]

Some friends have a 4 year old, and another bunch have a 3 year old, both boys, they each have a girl too. In the case of the 4 year old, last time I was there, he was running around in a dress his sister and friends put on him, the other little guy got upset a few months ago when he didn't have a skirt like his friend. He forgot about it and so didn't go shopping for one though. His parents were quite willing to get him one.

[Stu]

This thread has left me scratching my head with bafflement.

Is there supposed to be some kind of psychological harm that a child can suffer if they se a male family member wearing a garment which is a bit unconventional? Am I missing something here?

Stu

[couyalair]

I don't know where Caultron's pics came from, but they're just great.

Martin

[Milfmog]

My first post on the forum, way back in 2006 when my son was 11 tells the story of how he dealt with a negative comment about my skirt wearing from another kid, it seems somewhat germane to this discussion. The post can be found here.

Have fun,


Ian.

[Caultron]

This thread has left me scratching my head with bafflement.

Is there supposed to be some kind of psychological harm that a child can suffer if they se a male family member wearing a garment which is a bit unconventional?

Yes, apparently, some people think that.

Am I missing something here?

No, I think you've got it.

[Caultron]

I don't know where Caultron's pics came from, but they're just great.

Martin

No mystery: I just googled "boy kilt".

[skirtingseattle]

I have a brother and a sister and both have two young children. My sister’s children were the first to see me in a sports kilt about 2 years ago. The eldest child is a girl and she was about 9 at the time, and the instant she saw me she experienced extreme cognitive dissonance. Even though the rest of the adults in the room were trying to help her understand that it was OK for Uncle Chris to be wearing a skirt, she would have none of it. The younger child is a boy about 2 years younger, around 7 at the time, thought absolutely nothing about it, even when he was directed to look at Uncle Chris and make a comment. He didn’t, and went right back to playing with his toys. I then spent about 30 minutes on the Internet with my niece showing her pictures of Scotland and the men in kilts there, at the Queen of England’s castle with the guards in kilts. I showed her pictures of the Presidential Guards (evzones) in Athens, as well as other pictures from Asia and Africa with sarongs, dhotis, caftans, and more. She just wouldn’t accept it. From a childhood developmental perspective, this reaction is not unusual as many children at this age are finalizing their formulations about gender: external form, behaviors, rules of dress and the like.

About 6 months later, my brother’s family came for a visit, and the experiences were different. My brother’s eldest child is a boy and the younger is a girl (10 and 8 respectively at the time). The boy’s reaction was one of indifference and he never made any comment about it to me or anyone else during the entire 10 day visit. The girl on the other hand noticed me the very instant I first wore a kilt and her comment to me was, “Uncle Chris, that shirt doesn’t go with that skirt.” She was right, and I promptly change shirts, and she approved of the change. No other comments were made during the visit about my kilts.

I can sympathize with members of this forum who have to constantly battle the "common sense" notions of family members and friends. Much of this “common sense view of the world” is anecdotal information that is partial, incomplete, biased, nonfactual, and often demonstrably false. But this is unfortunately the way of the world because people aren’t constantly checking, and re-checking, the facts and fundamental assumptions upon which their worldview is based.

Example: A person believes that females can wear dresses and skirts, but males cannot. Also, they believe that young children blindly copy/imitate the actions/behaviors of parents or other family members. Consequently, everyone in the family should model only acceptable, normative behavior.

Analysis: The example beliefs upon first blush, for the average person on the street, would raise no eyebrows; however, I think nearly every member of this forum could easily tear these assumptions apart. If the average person on the street were shown pictures of men from around the world in dresses and skirts, most would concede that males can wear these garments. If the average person on the street were shown studies about childhood development and how the child builds their self-image, their sexual identity, their sexual orientation, their concepts of gender roles, many of these average people on the street would probably concede that what a father, uncle, grandfather or other relative wears has near zero influence on the child along these important developmental pathways.

[skirted_in_SF]

From a childhood developmental perspective, this reaction is not unusual as many children at this age are finalizing their formulations about gender: external form, behaviors, rules of dress and the like.

I've experienced this myself. I was walking down the sidewalk in a residential area in my neighborhood wearing a long wrap skirt. I passed two young girls playing in front of a house and after I passed one of them said to the other "that boy is wearing a dress". I didn't bother to go back and tell them it was a skirt and since I was then in my late 50s, I was a long way from being a boy.

[Hazy]

Hi,

Looks like I might have started something here that is well worth talking about. First of all, my wife is accepting of the fact that I like skirts. She doesn't like it one little bit, but tolerates it when we are at home alone. I must point out that I like skirts, not kilts, (although I probably would like wearing a kilt if I tried one on), so from her POV, I have stepped into the crossdresser role.

The parents might be concerned that their children's sex roles, conventions, and/or preferences are still highly in flux, and so the parents are unwilling to expose them to, uh, variations.

I guess this sums a portion of my wife's fears. Nicely put!

This thread has left me scratching my head with bafflement.
Is there supposed to be some kind of psychological harm that a child can suffer if they se a male family member wearing a garment which is a bit unconventional? Am I missing something here?

No Stu, I don't think you're missing anything at all.

My wife doesn't overly fear our children's psychological harm, what worries her most is that they will tell friends and neighbours etc that dad wears a skirt sometimes, and then:
1. The kids are picked on or ridiculed in school for having a weirdo dad.
2. Her own social standing in mothers groups etc may be compromised as being the wife of the weirdo.

Rational fears or not, they are her fears.

Cheers

Hazy