Freestyler or a braveheart?

[SkirtedViking]

Need your opinion here...Do you find that the whole braveheart thing is following the present trend for men's fashion that all should be "masculine"(who says what masculine is?the society,of course) and thus is not much of a freedom or difference,but just an aspect of the status-quo these days in terms of fashion.I havent's seen a woman to be affraid to wear certain types of trousers(and other clothing and accessories),t-shirts,shoes,etc. cause they are masculine,but when it comes to men,most of us seem to be confined even in fashion freedom-ex.: I will wear this only if it is masculine.These are just some thoughts of mine I suppose.No offence to anyone.

[Stu]

So far as I am concerned, the only true "no-go" area is to present a whole look which is anything other than unequivocally male to the majority of people who are likely to see you. To do so is about aping the female sex rather than extending men's sartorial options.

Having said that, there are some items which are expressly feminine to the extent that for a man to wear them would be at the very least odd, and possibly verging on crossdressing and so should be treated with extreme caution if not avoided altogether. I include things which are clearly designed to enhance the traditional female form like garments women wear to emphasise their busts or the narrowness of their waists. Also garments which are inherently impractical even for women, yet are worn by them to draw attention to the length and shape of their legs, such as micro-minis and stilettoes.

Some people may say that I am odd because I do not like any kind of jewellery. I do not own any kind of ring, bracelet or neck chain, nor have I ever had any piercings. I personally find jewellery rather feminine, yet I wear several styles of skirt!

Stu

[AMM]

I'll have to confess that terms like "Braveheart" and "Freestyler" haven't touched my life much. The only places I encounter skirt or kilt-wearers in the flesh are dance venues (unless you count marching bands in kilts), and no one there worries about seeming too feminine. The kilt-wearers (the Scottish dancers) seem to mostly follow the kilt uniform rules, as established by the kilt makers. Skirts I see mostly in the Contra-dance crowd, where it's more anything-goes. In the rest of my world, kilts are seen as a Scottish costume (requiring bagpipes) and skirts (on men) are so beyond anyone's frame of reference that feminine vs. masculine is irrelevant.

To me, the endless debates as to whether something is "too feminine" or "masculine enough" are as beside the point as the arguments in the Black community as to whether so-and-so is "black enough." I can't help feeling that there's not much going on in their lives, if they have time enough to worry about this stuff.

Actually, I think that if you spend too much energy worrying about whether your skirts are sufficiently Politically Correct, you will come across as weirder than if you're obviously just wearing something you picked up on impulse from Wal-Mart or a thrift store.


-- AMM

[ChristopherJ]

Does my bum look big in this?

<does a twirl>

LOL - just a joke. There need not be a distinction between 'freestylers' and 'bravehearts'. I wear shorts skirts - that were made for women. But if I had the money, I would happily buy and wear kilts - made for men. I quite like the look of some kilts.

It all comes down to personal taste. What one person may feel looks effeminate, another person may feel it looks uni-sexual, or whatever.

My own preference is that I do not like overtly feminine stuff and would not wear female underwear, frilly skirts, feminine shoes etc. But - and I must stress this - this is just my own personal preference - I do not claim any 'right' or 'wrong' in my choices.

On the other hand - I also do not like some masculine stuff - like big engineers boots, wife beater vests, shell suits, beards, moustaches etc.

My views on other men who wear skirts is simply that I am happy for them that they enjoy wearing skirts - and I don't care if they wear a frilly skirt like a kilt or a micro mini skirt. However, I would only really feel comfortable with men who wear skirts as men. Although I would be quite happy to make friendships with crossdressers or transvestites etc., I would not feel that I have anything in common with them. But I do feel a sense of 'brotherhood' (if that's not too strong a word) with any man who wears a skirt as a man - be he a 'freestyler' or 'braveheart'. Those labels don't make a lot of difference to me.

[TomH]

I own a kilt and find it fun to wear at times. However, I also find it heavy and tough to drive in. So, I wear skirts a lot and enjoy the light and airy feel.
Guess that makes me a freestyler, but..... So far, I've been using denum skirts out and about, even though I have some 'nicer' ones that I'm getting up the nerve to use. Black and or pleated of different colors. Not sure how masculine I will appear in those, so.....
I also like them on the short side, but have been very careful.

TomH

[Departed Member]

I suppose it all comes down to what our personal perceptions of the terms "Braveheart" and "Freestyler" have come to mean.

Speaking as someone who does not want to 'stand out in the crowd', in other words comfort & practicality are the only factors that concern me, then I find the 'freestylers' (that is, those folk who fit my definition of 'Freestyler') who continually berate the rest of us for not wearing brightly coloured clothes, which say, "Look at ME!", somewhat irksome.

Having years ago rejected Jeans as a clothing option (in part, due the increased chafing problem of the material), I've been pleasantly surprised that many denim skirts around today suit my personal situation adequately. So I have the benefits of a garment that's hard-wearing, practical (pockets!), comfortable (no inseam), distinctly 'masculine' in both fit and appearance (even down to 'left over right' fastening!) and doesn't draw unwanted attention. Is that "Braveheart"? I don't think so. Is that "Freestyle"? I don't think so, either! I have Kilts & non-denim skirts, too, but they are all purely "Tr*user Substitutes", as far as I am concerned!

[AMM]

... I find the 'freestylers' (that is, those folk who fit my definition of 'Freestyler') who continually berate the rest of us for not wearing brightly coloured clothes, which say, "Look at ME!", somewhat irksome.

(I hope you don't feel that I'm one of your "beraters", even though I did post a rant against the triumph of drabness. )

This made me realize what bothers me about the terms "braveheart" and "freestyler": they always seem to be part of some fashion-political agenda. They're about what we "should" or "shouldn't" wear. I get harrangued enough about what I should and shouldn't do:[*] "Don't hold the door!", "Beware of suspicious packages!", "Buckle your seatbelt!", "Get Verizon Wireless!", "Save money with our product!" I wear skirts for fun, for comfort, for feeling good, and when I want to "feel good", whether by wearing a skirt, dancing Postie's Jig, or reading a book, I am not in the mood for someone telling me what's a "correct" way of feeling good and what's not.

That said, I wouldn't mind finding at least one or two other people who do some of the same things I do to "feel good." Collectors of 19th-century Albanian stamps like to get together with other collectors of 19th-century Albanian stamps. Why shouldn't guys who like to wear short denim skirts while drinking a pint want to get together with other guys who like the same? Or bearded guys who like to wear brightly-colored full skirts and dance, for that matter?

-- AMM

[*] I once spent a few weeks in Poland when it was under martial law. I remember being taught how awful it was that in Communist countries, as opposed to Free countries, people were constantly being bombarded with Propaganda. But I remember the weeks in Poland as the most bombardment-free weeks of my life. I don't think I had realized how much our lives are filled with advertising (whether commercial or public-service) and other messages until I went away and came back.

[Milfmog]

On the other hand - I also do not like some masculine stuff - like big engineers boots, wife beater vests, shell suits, beards, moustaches etc.

Sounds like you and I had better try to avoid meeting, I would really rather avoid offending you (pity really, I had you down as a mate I had not met yet)*. I sometimes choose big boots and have a full beard and moustache (for the last 25 years). I will not admit to ever having owned a shell suit and have absolutely no idea what a "wife beater vest" is, but...

In all honesty the whole braveheart / freestyler debate is just people hanging labels on things. Fashion, like most other things in life, is a continuous spectrum; some are at one end, some are at the other end, but the vast majority are somewhere between the two. Me, I just wear what I like on the day I put it on. If that breaks someone's rules, tough, they'll get over it.

Have fun (and forget artificial divisions),


Ian.

* Don't take that too seriously; if I ever know I shall be in Bristol I'll drop you a PM and see if you'd like me to buy you a pint of good, foaming, falling over fluid.

[ChristopherJ]

Sounds like you and I had better try to avoid meeting, I would really rather avoid offending you

Nah. I'll forgive you the beard - and even the moustache. Just don't vote Conservative. Now, that really would offend me.

If you were ever coming to Bristol, do PM me as it would be great to meet up.

[Milfmog]

Just don't vote Conservative. Now, that really would offend me.

Oh dear...

Just kidding; next time I'm heading that way I'll give you a shout.

Have fun,


Ian.

[Departed Member]

Just don't vote Conservative. Now, that really would offend me.

I think I'll just avoid Bristol altogether, in future!

[crfriend]

Speaking as someone who does not want to 'stand out in the crowd', in other words comfort & practicality are the only factors that concern me, then I find the 'freestylers' (that is, those folk who fit my definition of 'Freestyler') who continually berate the rest of us for not wearing brightly coloured clothes, which say, "Look at ME!", somewhat irksome.

Not wanting to stand out in a crowd is perfectly acceptable and is your prerogative; berating someone for that is futile and, worse, annoying to the one being berated for it.

My approach to the matter is that the option to be flashy (no, not *that way*) should be openly on the table for those bold enough to go after the look. I'm completely in agreement with AMM's thesis that men have been dragged into a pit of drabness -- and most of us followed along perfectly willlingly because most men don't like to stand out; however, in so doing, we surrendered a mode of expression that can be one heck of a lot of fun. Flights of fancy are not the sole purview of the female of the species.

For crying out out loud, it seems that the only place a man can use any sort of bright colour is on a necktie, and even those have been largely relegated to the dustbin of history. Are we doomed to a life of black, dark blue, and khaki (Afghan for "dirt")? That's no way to celebrate life -- those are funeral colours!

[Departed Member]

I don't believe it is just men that are becoming entrenched in 'clothing limitation'. Certainly, on a day-to-day basis, women have tumbled far more rapidly down the 'fashion ladder'. "Bland 'uniformity' (in particular, Jeans) seems to have descended like a poisonous cloud, in part due to the dead hand of "Socialism", where freedom of expression, non-conformity, being in any part 'different' is strictly frowned upon.

However, I'm quite happy to see folk who do flaunt that ideology, whatever its source, making their own personal visual statement. There are far worse things folk do these days, which go way beyond comprehension - such as (would you believe) eating their meals, holding their fork in their right hand, and just, err, shovelling ("Try using a spoon!", I feel like crying out loud!).

[binx]

How can wearing a kilt not be as fashionable as a skirt these days? I get just as many stares, comments, and compliments in a kilt as when in a skirt. If you wear one daily, you're making a men's fashion statement anyway. Until men's skirts are as cheap as a Stillwater kilt at $26, you'll be a freestyler to wear many skirts. I prefer the modern kilt variations as they are much more modest, accepted at work and just as comfortable. I still wear my Lane Bryant's, Roaman's and Gap skirts to go on errands and occasional local festivals, so I'm kinda on the fence. Tights are just too warm for this time of year IMO. I'm a freestylin'
braveheart.

binx

[SkirtedViking]

...since women wear so called men's style clothes(not only trousers-think of all the other stuff),shoes,accessories,etc and are still women,for us to be equal and to be so as men(not as female impersonators), is a must to fight for the same right to wear what we want no matter if it is only a skirt or the rest of the above mentioned fashion freedom!