The role of "fashion" (Was: Nothing's Changed!)

[AMM]

The thread "Nothing's changed" got me to thinking about my take on clothing styles and fashion.

The OP complained that nothing had changed for men's clothing, but I'd say that nothing has changed for men's or women's clothing in the last 20--30 years (with one exception, which I'll get to later.)

I remember when changes in women's clothing styles -- and men's, for that matter -- were actually a subject of conversation and front-page news. The mini-skirt, the midi, the Nehru jacket, the expanding role of jeans, paisley, etc.

It's been a long time now since anyone wore anything that was worth talking about -- maybe since the seventies.


This hit me this week, when I looked at some pictures on the fashion page of the NY Times, and realized that all the clothes were just collages of random elements. As far as I could tell, any kindergardner could have come up with something just as good. The model was nothing but a base on which the so-called designer could glue bits of cloth. (Flesh-and-blood treated as styrofoam.)

The clothing had nothing to say about the wearer or the designer. It was the design equivalent of word salad. Completely incoherent.


When I think back, at one time, changes in clothing styles were about changes in how women's (and men's) bodies were to be presented and viewed.

To drastically oversimplify, shorter skirts emphasized the parts of the body that were newly visible as well as the parts that were still hidden, and presented a feeling of -- well, accessibility -- and went along with the spirit of the "sexual revolution." At the same time, longer skirts emphasized what was now hidden, and gave a feeling that the wearer was "in control" of what the viewer could see and -- by extension -- do with the wearer.

Men's clothes also had meaning. Tight -- really tight -- pants emphasized men's shape and sexual parts. Colorful clothing (paisley, tie-dye, etc.) made the wearer more visible -- someone to be frankly looked at. Loose, casual jeans indicated a rejection of the formality that was the norm at the time. (I remember a time when you never used first names with adults you didn't know reasonably well.)

It was one part of the raucus public discussion of what was important, what was right, what one should or shouldn't do or believe.

What you wore made a statement about what you believed and who you wanted to be taken to be -- hippy, hard-hat, power broker, sexually free, for or against The War, traditional values or Free Love, etc.

But all that is gone.

What can anyone wear that makes a statement (beyond slogans silk-screened on a T-shirt)? Short, long, wool, denim, suit, punk, it's all the same.

In the same way that our ideas have been "food-processed" to the point that we can no longer say anything, so fashion elements and styles have been so sliced and diced that our clothing can no longer say anything.

Forget trying to "say something", it's a major task just to assemble an ensemble. (Now that I am really looking at the women's clothing for sale, I am amazed that women are able to find anything to wear that doesn't make them look like bag ladies.)


The one exception to the "nothing new in the last 25 years" is hip-hop.

I don't like the style, I think it is essentially "anti-fashion" -- ill-fitting taken to such an extreme that it becomes obvious it couldn't be inadvertent.

But at least it's a statement, even if a negative one, the way "gangsta" is a rejection of a society that has no room for whole classes of human beings -- if you can't be "good", you can at least be badder than bad, if there's no room in the society for you to live, better to choose death and at least feel you have a choice.

Obligatory skirt-content:

So, from this point of view, what are we saying, what are we presenting ourselves as when we wear skirts?

And where do skirted men fit into a society that is showing the same hostility to human beings that it has been showing to rats and germs?

Human beings can't live without meaning. What is our meaning?

-- AMM

[binx]

Everytime I see a young woman in a nice mini-skirt with nice tan legs, there's definitely a statement made to me!:cheer: And it ain't a bag lady statement either!:naughty::drool: Our statement is "I am confident with my self image and comfortable in my skirts." The meaning is the expressed fashion freedom for men.

binx

[skirttron]

Those of us who were quite hip decades ago, and always agued that anything goes with clothes have to face up to the fact that we won. Skirts (and maybe even dresses) for men represent the last unconquered territory which is maybe one reason why we go there.

[Kelly]

Indeed, we have won! Get over it! Get out and enjoy the freedom we've won and stop fretting over "what might happen". Nothing will happen!

Now, I'm speaking here to people in civilised countries with a reasonable sense of taste. If you go out in a denim skirt that covers your crotch, you may shiver with fear at the outset, but you'll rapidly discover that very few people notice and even fewer care. Interpret this as tolerance if you like, but I think it's simply that there are so many other things to notice than somebody who's unconventionally dressed.

Go out in a bridesmaid's dress, and you'll probably get lots of attention, but then you've asked for that. A woman who went to the mall so attired would get attention too, although probably not from the same people.

But the thing we ought to realise here, a decade after the whole MIS thing exploded on the Internet, is that we've won. We can wear whatever we want, wherever we wish, and nothing bad will happen other than whatever worries we impose upon ourselves. This is a tremendous victory, and we should make the most of it. The more we make of it, the more people we'll inspire to do the same.

[AMM]

Indeed, we have won!
...
But the thing we ought to realise here, a decade after the whole MIS thing exploded on the Internet, is that we've won. We can wear whatever we want, wherever we wish, and nothing bad will happen other than whatever worries we impose upon ourselves. This is a tremendous victory, and we should make the most of it.

What if our "winning" comes as a result of losing something more important?

What if the reason no one really cares what we wear is because nothing we wear, or do, or say matters any more?

Writers and poets in other times and places have had to worry about being jailed because of the power of their words. In the USA, at least, they no longer have to worry about jail, not just because of the First Amendment (it never stopped the government from trying, and often succeeding), but because no one listens to them any more.

When I was growing up, people -- strangers, even -- cared what we said, what positions we held in the public debate, and, yes, what we wore.

Now no one cares. We (=our society) each "do our thing" individually, in isolation, and ignore everybody else.

We have, IM-not so-HO, forgotten how to mean something to one another.

I'm not sure that, on the whole, we're better off.

The more we make of it, the more people we'll inspire to do the same.

We can wear skirts if we want. We can wear gorilla suits if we want. No one will care. But that means they won't be inspired, either.


-- AMM

[davereporter]

Hi everyone,

I have been lurking quietly the last few months because basically there was nothing more to say... however this last thread has woken me up from my stupor and inspired me to write.

I question the fact that we have won. Why?

Because skirts on men arestill considered unacceptable attire in many places (at least here in Oz). True you don't get arrested as long as you are covered in the right places but
1) You still cannot go into the menswear section of ANY shop here in Australia and purchase a denim, cargo, twill or any type of skirt designed for a man.
2) On-line skirt manufacturers are struggling (eg. Dan of Cityskirts)
3) You walk down the street and people look at you kind of strangely. True you rarely get comments but there still is the energy of WTF is he/she doing
4) You wouldn't yet wear your skirts to church, a job interview, your workplace, picking up your kids from school or other places where your appearance tends to be noticed without a good deal of bravado, confidence or a good excuse (preferably medical)
5) Your family members tolerate you but (with few exceptions) don't encourage or overly support you

Until such time as we can all walk around in our favourite skirts and it attracts no more attention than if we were in our favourite jeans/cargos we can hardly say we have made much progress.

Try this experiment at home...
Pick your favourite testosterone laden sports event (football, racing cars) and roll up wearing a skirt. Pick the loudest groups of men who have had a few and try to join their party.

When you wake up a few days later and the bones have set, try the same experiment wearing a pair of jeans.

Or another experiment - go to a professional development seminar and again choose to wear that denim skirt instead of your jeans. True people will "pretend" to be polite but feel the energy around you... you will be thought of as strange - at least until people get to know you and you JUSTIFY your clothing choices to them. Guys in jeans do not have to JUSTIFY that they are wearing jeans because the doctor said their scrotums were getting a bit cold or because their legs are too disfigured to wear a skirt or because they are fighting for equality to dress the same as the girls who also can wear jeans. They just wear them and that is that.

It is easy to forget that this group is a very small cloistered community which is thankfully very accepting of others whether they choose to wear skirts, stockings, heels or whatever. Out "there" the reality is somewhat different and until we can change what happens out "there" there is still much work to be done.

Back to sculking around

Dave

[Big and Bashful]

Taken one small step for a big man,
Just bid on a couple of skirts on ebay, a black gypsy skirt and a long denim skirt.
Now if I win them I need A) to fit them, and B) lots of courage/confidence/alcohol before I go out in public. If they fit then another excuse not to has gone. Here's hoping! It is going to be a bit having skirts that fit but a kilt that wishes I was three stone lighter!