skirtcafe.org

I couldn't help noticing the coincidence of two threads: at the same time that Bob was being berated for "censorship" for pulling certain references to certain illegal sex acts, his attempt to un-censor religion as a topic on the Cafe was being shouted down in rather uncivil terms. And some people participated in both.

Does this mean that censorship is OK if it's people in our group that don't like the subject (and are willing to misbehave to get their way), but not OK if other people (e.g., law enforcement) may get upset by it?


I also couldn't help being conscious that SkirtCafe exists (and continues to exist) because Bob is willing to put the time and money into keeping it alive. I know it takes money to pay the ISP bills, and maybe software license fees. It also takes time to do the system administration and to moderate the forums.

It was only a few months ago that it looked like there would be no successor to Tom's Cafe. There were a few "I'd love to, but I can't"s, and at the last minute, Bob stepped in. I haven't seen any requests for donations.

So I figure this is basically Bob's site, and I'm a guest, taking advantage of his generosity and his desire to continue Tom's legacy.

I don't know about anyone else, but I was brought up to believe that when you're a guest, you should act like a guest. At a minimum, that means dealing civilly and respectfully with your host. But it also means trying to act in a way that makes your host glad he invited you in.

I hope that the recent un-guest-like behavior doesn't lead Bob to reconsider his willingness to open is cybernetic house to us.

-- AMM

P.S.: I guess it's time to put on my Nomex long underwear....

AMM wrote:I couldn't help noticing the coincidence of two threads: at the same time that Bob was being berated for "censorship" for pulling certain references to certain illegal sex acts, his attempt to un-censor religion as a topic on the Cafe was being shouted down in rather uncivil terms. And some people participated in both.

You weren't here to see the flame wars that a religious forum caused, so you don't have anything to base your assumptions on in that matter. I was there and it almost killed the forum. I don't want that to happen again and will fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening. (Even if that means I'm hated for it.) It's got nothing to do with censoring religion, or discussions having to do with someone's faith in relation to their fashion choices. Those types of conversations have occured and people usually have been civil, but when the forum is religious all kinds of crap has happened.

AMM wrote: Does this mean that censorship is OK if it's people in our group that don't like the subject (and are willing to misbehave to get their way), but not OK if other people (e.g., law enforcement) may get upset by it?

It's just a word! Some people got paranoid. The word in and of itself has no power. In the context of the discussions since 2002, the word was used to explain what we are not. (I hope none of us are.) No one mentioned any illegal sex acts, the word that was banned refers to certain sick people in this world that some people would assume is a man in a skirt since it could be worn to flash... I'll not continue the sentence because the thought repels me. (Self-censored) It wasn't a vulgarity, which by the way I like having censored, but a word that was in public view in the New York Times. The word is not vulgar, just the people to whom it refers.

AMM wrote:So I figure this is basically Bob's site, and I'm a guest, taking advantage of his generosity and his desire to continue Tom's legacy.

Trust me, he's not running it like Tom did. If he was, none of this would have happened. Nor is he running it like Noodles did. This quote of yours says the same thing I said in a different post that a very few seem to object to. It used to be run like it was here for us, now it's being run like it's here for Bob. That may be fine for those who wish to be puppets, but most of us like to feel like we belong too. If you, or anyone else thinks I don't belong, then anyone is free to make a poll asking if I should l leave. If the majority vote yes, than I'll be happy to go and I'll leave this place to the puppets. I don't however feel that the majority of people here are puppets. Most of them like being able to decide for themselves what is right and wrong.

AMM wrote:I don't know about anyone else, but I was brought up to believe that when you're a guest, you should act like a guest. At a minimum, that means dealing civilly and respectfully with your host. But it also means trying to act in a way that makes your host glad he invited you in.

I hope that the recent un-guest-like behavior doesn't lead Bob to reconsider his willingness to open is cybernetic house to us.

woooo.... It's a scary world out here.... get used to it!

When I feel like a guest, I'll act like one. When I feel like I'm being repressed, I'll act like it. When I see something happening that will destroy a community, I'll act against it to protect the community even at the risk of losing my own right to be there. I'm not going to be anyones puppet. I'm sure you can see why I've been able to get away with skirts and long nails in some very redneck places, and that I have no fear of other people.

I'm bored with this discussion.... But I'll have you know that I'm not alone in my opinions, just in my willingness to express them.