skirtcafe.org

When I saw the headline on this BBC piece today, I had high hopes: Shorts at work: Can men now get their legs out in the office?
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crlj0g43n18o

Not really, I wasn't expecting it to suggest we wear skirts. But I was a bit disheartened to read that even shorts might be off limits, and pushing the boundaries too far

The professionals advise that if your company has no explicit dress code, you should monitor what your colleagues are wearing and decide whether shorts would look out of place. Otherwise "you may be pushing the boundaries," warns Nick Hems, a personal stylist in London.

To read the comment of a personal stylist effectively urging men to police each other's style of dress and try not to look out of place is a sad recipe for drabness and homogeneity. It would have been fun if the'd have thrown a. 'how about skirts then' piece in at the end to lighten it up

If it is hot wear clothing appropriate for this, the kind of attitude described here is insane and we desperately need to stop doing this.

I work for the British Civil Service.
Dress code says No Shorts for anyone.
At local level, I have seen it relaxed at local level, sensible manager.
However, there's a teeny loophole for the women and me.
Wear a skirt without hosiery, easy!
They cannot demand that my legs are covered when skirted because the women would have to be told the same.
It'd be tantamount to suicide for a manager of any sex to issue that edict.
Meantime, I am the coolest dude in the office, literally.
Steve.

I've read the article and what I get from it, is the advice "to limit eventual troubles with your company, don't deviate too much from the mass". Stevej180 and robehickman's comment don't reflect that. Did I miss something?

Spirou003 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 21, 2025 11:10 amthe advice "to limit eventual troubles with your company, don't deviate too much from the mass".

Much depends on whether the emphasis on on "deviate" or "too much". Many of the knuckle-draggers cannot tolerate any deviation whatsoever -- and that's what's causing all the friction.

If they tried to tell me I couldn't wear shorts to work I may actually quit. It's too damn warm to wear long pants.

As for styling: my work is full of nerds, if we had to worry about styling our clothes they'd have had to fire the lot of us years ago

What I strongly object to is this concept:

But wearing shorts to the office is still "very much a grey area", Karina says, describing them as "the ultimate casual piece of clothing".

Tying articles of clothing to a concept of 'formality' as this sentence does is logically absurd. Clothing needs to be functional, long trousers of the type attributed to 'menswear'* are objectively not functional in hot weather. Humans are cooled by sweat evaporating, which can not happen if there is no airflow. The design of most all 'men's' clothing is garbage at providing airflow.

This idea of 'formality' is entirely arbitrary, and in countries with hot weather all the time, shorts are considered 'formal', because they work for the environment. Culturally, our mentality around clothing is far too rigid. There is, generally, a thing where fashion focuses mostly on appearance, not if something is actually fit for purpose, and we desperately need to stop doing this.

* Long trousers are not inherently incompatible with hot weather if they are loose fitting and flowy, i.e. culottes. Fabric movements moves fresh air into the garment. I would not expect anyone would complain about women wearing this kind of thing, and men should in hot weather also because it is simply functional.

Workplace temperatures
During working hours the temperature in all indoor workplaces must be reasonable.
There’s no law for minimum or maximum working temperatures, for example when it’s too cold or too hot to work.
However, guidance suggests a minimum of 16ºC or 13ºC if employees are doing physical work.
There’s no guidance for a maximum temperature limit.
Employers must stick to health and safety at work law, including:
keeping the temperature at a comfortable level
providing clean and fresh air
Employees should talk to their employer if the workplace temperature is not comfortable.

This is a direct quote from .Gov.UK, the government website.
There are no real laws and reference to relaxed dress codes is even sketchier.
Remember and I only speak for the UK, dress codes are set by the employer with little that can be effectively done to mount a challenge.
Unless you don't care about keeping the job and/or raising your head above the parapet that is.
Feeling brave?
Steve.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Sun Jun 22, 2025 6:16 pm
Remember and I only speak for the UK, dress codes are set by the employer with little that can be effectively done to mount a challenge.
Unless you don't care about keeping the job and/or raising your head above the parapet that is.
Feeling brave?
Steve.

One always has the option to vote with their feet and quit and work somewhere else, or for themselves. If everyone did this, things would change very quickly.

I find your attitude persistently extremely negative and self-defeating.

robehickman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 23, 2025 12:31 am One always has the option to vote with their feet and quit and work somewhere else, or for themselves. If everyone did this, things would change very quickly.

You are correct in that, if you work for your own company, you can wear whatever you like....up to a point. My company still has to sell it's services to others, so a certain image is still important, which is why I have a certain restrained Mouse style for company time. Where I draw the line is a continuing piece of work, deciding what is acceptable for my company look. I have written in the cafe about whether blue denim skirt was OK, having always restricted denim to black in my company trouser days.

robehickman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 23, 2025 12:31 am I find your attitude persistently extremely negative and self-defeating.

One cannot change reality and if the truth hurts, so be it.
I'm about to leave for the office wearing a skirt, as I have done for many years.
What will you be wearing at work today?
Steve.

Maybe people are worried about hairy legs on men because a lot of folks find hairy legs unsightly on both men and women. It is also a problem with men wearing open colors, if so much hair pops out of the shirt that Tarzan could get lost in that jungle.

I saw a male work colleague yesterday in shorts, ending just above the knee. Mid 30s, tall, slim.

I said to him, “you’re wearing shorts!” He sheepishly said “yes”, almost as if he was about to be chided by me.

I looked at him and said, “do you know what I think about men wearing shorts at work?” At this point he was looking worried.

My answer - “Equality. If women can get their legs out, so can men. I support you completely. That’s fairness.” His face lit up, and we both smiled. Nothing more was said, and the world did not stop turning.

Ps I’m one of the bosses.

Sure Jamie,
That's an even bigger headache for women.
Simple answer, if it is a worry, get grooming or get over it.
I do the grooming bit and yes, I like to expose my legs occasionally and appropriately.
Challenging the unwritten absurd dress codes and practices of normality will never be easy!
Without those challenges, change will never happen though.
Just be very aware that there are still many men and women who really will object very strongly to unconventional choices.
Steve.
PS Ray just happens to be one of the enlightened, a rarity!

Thanks, Stevie! A description not often used to describe me