Hypothethical Question

[Grok]

We are all on a gender spectrum. Some of us are more masculine and some of us are in the middle, and some of us are more feminine. The Man-Box teaches us that “feminine is bad” and also that we don’t have a feminine side. Women accept their masculine side because they don’t have a Woman-Box to govern their lives.

An old friend once commented that my personality is right in the middle.

[Modoc]

I insist on my own boxes. Associating particular characteristics or behaviour with one gender over another is itself conditioning. Just as I reject society's restrictions on what I can wear I reject its gender associations. For myself, ... I allow others to determine their own gender characteristics. There is huge danger in unqualified people imposing their cod psychology/genetics on others - it is a form of bullying - and can have dreadful consequences if impressionable people are intimidated by it.

Well Said,
The dreadful consequences are exactly what we are dealing with today. Fully grown individuals afraid to live the way they want because of the fear of not fitting in.

[STEVIE]

I noticed that there seems to be interest in some sort of MIS skirt suit. Perhaps such a suit might be the next thing to gain traction?

I have one, the "Skroot", it's on here download/file.php?id=14007&t=1.
As for traction, I don't much care because it ticks my own boxes and conforms to no one but me!
That cost about £200 UKS, for maybe 10 times that, you could buy a Kilt Suit.
Oddly that one would be as Gender Conforming as you could wish, the ultimate in Celtic machismo, approved by the Tartanazis too.
Special note to Uncle Al, that applies equally to any "kilt", as opposed to a kilted skirt which we best leave for a new thread and a whole different line of vexation.
Apologies in advance, Carl and Antony.
Steve.

[Ray]

I have a kilt suit. It’s not tartan.

Not sure what that all means apart from the fact that I like it.

I get lots of compliments when I wear it.

[Mouse]

I have one, the "Skroot", it's on here download/file.php?id=14007&t=1.

The one thing I never ever envied the women folk were the skirted suit looks. I lived through the 80's with the women power dressing in suits with big shoulder pads. Sorry Stevie, you look good in yours, but it is not for me. Like your red furry hat though.

[Dust]

That's precisely what it was -- and represents no measurable progress because aside from cut, men will still be shackled by the same boring colour-pallet and the same crappy fabrics they're confined to now.

Here's the thing, Carl. I'm younger than you, so I don't remember the 70's. But in my short life, I've watched a steady improvement in those areas of color pallet and fabrics.

In color, I've seen men's shirts, ties, and socks become commonly colorful, even colors formerly limited to women (pink and purple), in relatively formal and conservative settings. While men's pants and jackets are lagging behind, I see reason for optimism here. Even formal jackets are setting more subtle (or not so subtle) patterns and colors.

In fabrics, athletic gear has been a boon for men. Modern fabrics have improved, technologically, and as more men experience quality athletic gear, they stop wanting to wear traditional cotton and wool. And even traditional formal wear is getting modern fabric upgrades.

While the 70's flash in the pan of men's style may have temporarily been squashed, by the time I was in high school the tie-dye of hippies was mainstream fun for conservative kids. That's progress.

[Dust]

I am not "getting in touch with my feminine side" because I am a man and I don't have a feminine side.

I disagree with this statement. Psychological research over the past 50 years has proven this to be incorrect. Men and women both have feminine and masculine sides. Women are taught to embrace their masculine side while men are taught that the feminine side does not exist and that if it somehow begins to surface (even though you were taught it doesn’t exist), you must suppress it immediately! Believing that you don’t have a feminine side is Man-Box conditioning at it’s best!

We are all on a gender spectrum. Some of us are more masculine and some of us are in the middle, and some of us are more feminine. The Man-Box teaches us that “feminine is bad” and also that we don’t have a feminine side. Women accept their masculine side because they don’t have a Woman-Box to govern their lives.

Psychological research studying masculine and feminine behaviors have to assume that certain behaviors are masculine and others are feminine, if they want to do such studies. Those are chosen based on current cultural norms. The results of those studies then are used to reinforce those same cultural norms, regardless of how arbitrary they originally were.

[Dust]

It seems like a "When are you going to stop beating your wife" question which infers that you are beating your wife in the first place.

Sorry to hear about that rotten statistic, Anthony, but I suspect it's on the rise in most countries where the populations are under rapidly increasing stress on the socio-economic front and are in economic free-fall. This cannot go on much longer, and I hope the countries with functioning governments that actually represent the general public do something about it quickly. The ones that no longer represent the general public are doomed and will completely collapse in the next 10 years to internal chaos as society completely falls apart.

Once again, terminology bites us men. "Wife beating" implies male perpetrator, female victim. In reality this is only about a quarter of domestic violence cases. Roughly half is mutual, where both partners are violent towards the other. And violent women more commonly use weapons such as knives.

As to the government stepping in, that rarely actually improves things...

[Uncle Al]

Mod Hat - ON

IMPORTANT

This "Hypothethical Question" has created a 'Rabbit Hole' that many people are going bonkers with.
This "Question" has driven much 'back-room' discussion by the Admin Staff.

Several members have not taken 'the hint' to back off, stop fueling the "Question".

Unfortunately, this type of 'Rabbit Hole' will cause further damage to existing members and future
members. I've seen "Flame Wars", similar to this post, which has lead to major divisions and upsets.

Ultimately, this is leading to have this thread/topic LOCKED and, sadly, we're 99.8% to that point.

So keep it clean, stop fueling the "Rabbit Hole" and this thread will stay open.

If not - - - - - - - -

Mod Hat - OFF

Uncle Al

[STEVIE]

If not - - - - - - - -

Sorry Al, but I guess this excludes questions which may have to remain unasked.
Steve.

[Mouse]

Getting back to the original spirit of the question. At the moment I feel in the UK I have every freedom to choose any skirt with no particular rules to male dressing except for my own style rules, which I am at liberty to bend as I see fit. If skirts became common as male dressing, would rules come into male dressing to limit our choice?

I can't see any hard and fast rules making much progress in modern Britain relating to how people dress whether male or female. With so many different cultures in the country, what clothes the human body is very varied. Many men wear non-bifurcated garments for cultural or religious reasons and some like me, because we like skirts. So any rules or laws would have to skirt around all manner of special cases of religion and culture and for what purpose? In addition parts of the country have a national dress which includes a male skirt.

I also think that any establishment that still enforces a dress code of males needing to wear a jacket and tie, must be on the wane with some wealthy Arab gentlemen tuning up in full robes seeking entry.

So the answer to the question is to get out there and make your own rules up for you, because the wealth of different apparels on the streets gives us MIS space to dress as we please and to be free.

[crfriend]

Sorry Al, but I guess this excludes questions which may have to remain unasked.

It all depends on the quality of the question and how the thing works its way through the discussion process. It will also depend on the quality of discourse during any discussion.

The primary thing of note is that in this case, mutual respect was thrown completely to the wind by a couple of individuals (induhviduals?) and that was driving the tenor of discussion -- even after the offenders were first asked -- and then told -- to knock it off. This was sadly ignored, and the moderation staff, who prefers to remain a bit laid back unwisely opted to let it continue to slide rather than shutting it down promptly after requests to "cool it" went ignored.

It's worth recalling that this is a men's fashion forum. It's not for bashing men; it's not for ridiculing them; it's not aimed at Orthodox Crossdressers; it's not about femme superiority; it's not focused on trans-*; and it's not for radical-feminist rhetoric. All of those topics are much better catered to elsewhere. And, just because a guy decides to dress one way or another, DOES NOT put him on some sort of notional "spectrum", and DOES NOT grant others the poke at him publicly.

[Grok]

Getting back to the original spirit of the question. At the moment I feel in the UK I have every freedom to choose any skirt with no particular rules to male dressing except for my own style rules, which I am at liberty to bend as I see fit. If skirts became common as male dressing, would rules come into male dressing to limit our choice?

Hard to say. But skirts exist in a diversity of styles. Add to that the possibility of different styles of dresses.

In contrast, the possibilities for trousers seem much more limited. So it isn't entirely surprising that typical male garb (in effect) tends towards uniforms.

[JohnH]

I also think that any establishment that still enforces a dress code of males needing to wear a jacket and tie, must be on the wane with some wealthy Arab gentlemen tuning up in full robes seeking entry.

I don't see any establishment here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area of Texas that enforces the coat and tie attire for males. My solution would be to wear a dress instead.

John

[jamie001]

I would just wear a skirt and a blouse along with pantyhose and heels.

Jamie