Skirts in Schools - No hope for boys

[Barleymower]

I know that this forum is about promoting skirts for men and boys only. This is not a TG forum. This post is about TG politics which I think affect us all and on that basis, I'm posting it.

The crux of my reason for positing it here is this: TG kids get a rough ride in schools and the UK government is not helping them. TG girls can wear a skirt to school but the school can stop them if they choose. If TG girls have a uphill fight to get themselves heard then what chance does a boy who wants to wear a skirt on the basis that he prefers skirts to trousers? Essentially he would have to declare himself TG and then maybe the school would allow him (her) to wear a skirt but under 'draft' guidance they would say no. I can see now that any boy who had the nerve to say I want to wear a skirt would be told no.

Here what the draft guidance says:
A transitioning child is in general required to adhere to the same school uniform as other children of their biological sex. In practice, many schools offer flexibility regarding uniforms with trousers being available to each biological sex.

[crfriend]

A transitioning child is in general required to adhere to the same school uniform as other children of their biological sex. In practice, many schools offer flexibility regarding uniforms with trousers being available to each biological sex.

I've emphasised the operative word in the above for clarity. This has precisely zero bearing on the vast majority of boys. Even if the "policy" was changed to a strictly gender-neutral stance when it came to attire the school-yard bullies would enforce the status quo on the boys -- and would be tacitly supported by the administration.

The school-yard is not a source of hope in any meaningful sense. Children are nasty brutal little creatures, and heaven help the ones that step out of line. Shamefully, the adults condone this behaviour.

[Grok]

I believe this topic has come up before. An important point-The Powers That Be could bypass the Trans issue by changing the dress code. By requiring trousers for all students, with no skirt option for anybody.

[Barleymower]

A transitioning child is in general required to adhere to the same school uniform as other children of their biological sex. In practice, many schools offer flexibility regarding uniforms with trousers being available to each biological sex.

I've emphasised the operative word in the above for clarity. This has precisely zero bearing on the vast majority of boys. Even if the "policy" was changed to a strictly gender-neutral stance when it came to attire the school-yard bullies would enforce the status quo on the boys -- and would be tacitly supported by the administration.

The school-yard is not a source of hope in any meaningful sense. Children are nasty brutal little creatures, and heaven help the ones that step out of line. Shamefully, the adults condone this behaviour.

Tacit is the precise word. Prevention of boys wearing skirts in schools is not spoken of. It happens but nobody says anything. Why is it so dam important that skirts can't be offered to both sexes? What exactly are they afraid of?

[Barleymower]

I believe this topic has come up before. An important point-The Powers That Be could bypass the Trans issue by changing the dress code. By requiring trousers for all students, with no skirt option for anybody.

Why would they force everyone into trousers? Instead they should put their money where their mouth is and be diverse. They should encourage the boys to explore skirts, there's nothing to fear.

[Grok]

Barleymower, you need to understand that, at this point, we are at a stage where MIS has barely any traction. Don't be surprised if many view skirts as inherently feminine, for females only. And one way to avoid cognitive dissonance is to ban it. For example, one effective way to ban boys in skirts would be to require all students to wear trousers, while apparently being for gender equality. (A subtle form of virtue signaling).

[Barleymower]

Barleymower, you need to understand that, at this point, we are at a stage where MIS has barely any traction. Don't be surprised if many view skirts as inherently feminine, for females only. And one way to avoid cGroognitive dissonance is to ban it. For example, one effective way to ban boys in skirts would be to require all students to wear trousers, while apparently being for gender equality. (A subtle form of virtue signaling).

Grok, I understand the situation and I agree with what you have written above.

However based on what you previously said:
"I believe this topic has come up before. An important point-The Powers That Be could bypass the Trans issue by changing the dress code. By requiring trousers for all students, with no skirt option for anybody".

You said that the powers that be can avoid the problem by requiring everyone wears trousers. It seems that you were advocating trousers wearing. You were not saying that. Rather the opposite.

[Stu]

A high proportion of schools in the UK have de-gendered their uniforms. The aim was, in reality, to give girls the option of wearing trousers in addition to their existing choice of skirts, skorts, cullottes, pinafores and summer dresses. So girls get a real choice - boys get Hobson's choice - and all in the name of "equality". If anyone queries this, a supercilious head teacher will just chime up and say that, if any boys want to wear skirts, nobody is stopping them. But that's a lie and they should be challenged when they say it by pointing out that suppliers they insist parents use offer trousers for girls and trousers for boys, but the skirts are explicitly marketed as "girls' skirts. There is no such thing as boys' skirts and they are not even left ungendered.

https://www.marksandspencer.com/girls-a ... 20Dressing

https://direct.asda.com/george/school/g ... D10M2G1C10

https://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-gi ... t/p3155384

A note of optimism, though, is the schoolwear company Trutex, which always gendered school skirts in the past, but has stopped doing so.

https://www.trutex.com/senior-pleated-s ... hool-skirt

Well done. Trutex!

[Barleymower]

A high proportion of schools in the UK have de-gendered their uniforms. The aim was, in reality, to give girls the option of wearing trousers in addition to their existing choice of skirts, skorts, cullottes, pinafores and summer dresses. So girls get a real choice - boys get Hobson's choice - and all in the name of "equality". If anyone queries this, a supercilious head teacher will just chime up and say that, if any boys want to wear skirts, nobody is stopping them. But that's a lie and they should be challenged when they say it by pointing out that suppliers they insist parents use offer trousers for girls and trousers for boys, but the skirts are explicitly marketed as "girls' skirts. There is no such thing as boys' skirts and they are not even left ungendered.

https://www.marksandspencer.com/girls-a ... 20Dressing

https://direct.asda.com/george/school/g ... D10M2G1C10

https://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-gi ... t/p3155384

A note of optimism, though, is the schoolwear company Trutex, which always gendered school skirts in the past, but has stopped doing so.

https://www.trutex.com/senior-pleated-s ... hool-skirt

Well done. Trutex!

What are they all so afraid of?
Give men skirts and they will want the same as women? Can't have that!

As for Trutex. Show me a boy in a skirt and I'll applaud. Untill then it's just an ommision.

[Grok]

To understand my point of view...I became interested in MIS as a small boy back during the 1960s. Back when most females were still mostly wearing skirts/dresses. If it had been a realistic option back then, I would have eagerly tried wearing a skirt to school.

Unfortunately, I don't expect such thinking from many people. How many men have simply accepted a Trousers Tyranny? (And how many women demand a Trousers Tyranny for the men they date and marry?)

[Stu]

As for Trutex. Show me a boy in a skirt and I'll applaud. Untill then it's just an ommision.

To be fair Trutex used to specify the garments as "Girls' school skirt" and they have consciously removed the word "girls'" from both the title row at the top and the description. I agree that the models appear to be girls, but we have to accept that the overwhelming majority of customers buying these garments are doing so for their daughters, not their sons. I would say it's a very small step in the right direction.

In an ideal world, the determining factors should be comfort/smartness rather than gender. Part of comfort is surely being clad for the season and likely temperature, so the common sense solution would be trousers for all in the cooler months and skirts/dresses in the warmer months. But we aren't in an ideal world.

[Grok]

This has precisely zero bearing on the vast majority of boys. Even if the "policy" was changed to a strictly gender-neutral stance when it came to attire the school-yard bullies would enforce the status quo on the boys -- and would be tacitly supported by the administration.

The school-yard is not a source of hope in any meaningful sense. Children are nasty brutal little creatures, and heaven help the ones that step out of line. Shamefully, the adults condone this behaviour.

I recall a discussion about a school in Mexico, that-on paper-changed the Official Dress Code to a gender neutral stance. In a culture that emphasizes machismo; without even kilting as an option.

The new Official Dress Code virtue signals, by seemingly emphasizing a gender neutral stance. For practical purposes, though, the only real difference between the old Official Dress Code and the new Official Dress Code is that girls will be allowed to wear trousers. For boys, the reality is the same old Trousers Tyranny, enforced by bullies.

[Barleymower]

As for Trutex. Show me a boy in a skirt and I'll applaud. Untill then it's just an ommision.

To be fair Trutex used to specify the garments as "Girls' school skirt" and they have consciously removed the word "girls'" from both the title row at the top and the description. I agree that the models appear to be girls, but we have to accept that the overwhelming majority of customers buying these garments are doing so for their daughters, not their sons. I would say it's a very small step in the right direction.

In an ideal world, the determining factors should be comfort/smartness rather than gender. Part of comfort is surely being clad for the season and likely temperature, so the common sense solution would be trousers for all in the cooler months and skirts/dresses in the warmer months. But we aren't in an ideal world.

Stu, why give someone the benefit of the doubt when you know it is a deliberate act?

[Grok]

Is management serious about marketing a garment as gender neutral? Check their web site to see if it shows a male model wearing the garment in question.

Two examples that include male models are the web sites for Skirtcraft and Macabi.

[Spirou003]

Hmmm, just turning the question of boys shooting photos for marketing a skirt to be sold to other boys. Who do you think would dare to be exposed that way to all other kids? I mean, this is already something to wear a skirt, it's even more a thing to wear it publicly, even more a thing to wear it publicly at school (you know, bullies, etc., which are much more strong than anywhere else)... and yet even more a thing to be seen posing with a skirt by all kids from all schools (so long as they consult the catalogue, that it is shown to them by the parents - cause this is not common so come on and see what I've found in the catalogue, or that it is shown to them by a friend - hey look at this girly boy). I won't blame retailers of not having such pictures to expose as of today.
Honestly, at the same age, granted that I would have accepted to wear a skirt at all (which was not true), the only way I could have accepted to pose for such photos, would be that the catalogue is only used in foreign countries. I mean, not the UK or Spain, this is too close (from Belgium). Something like Russia, USA, Australia, where I'm guaranteed that risk is close to zero that kids at school see me dressed up that way. I doubt that school retailers from USA would search models from Europe and would accept to move to Europe for the shooting (travel would have been unaffordable), for example.