Progress, not for some.

[STEVIE]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/fam ... 0d0&ei=125

I'm not sure where to begin here, this one is covering so many bases.
He needs to get out now unless she gets some form of counselling or a simple reality check.
Once more, fake or real?
Problem is, how many females would agree with her and guys who'd go meekly along with this atrocious behaviour.
She's lucky it was a kilt and not some frothy lace and lurex confection like some wedding guests I have seen wearing.
Ironically, my wife would happily attend a function in my presence if I bowed to an "acceptable" kilt outfit.
Final thought, there could be a lot more bubbling under the surface in this case, the kilt issue being just a symptom of much deeper problems in their relationship.

Steve.

[Coder]

Once more, fake or real?

I wonder that myself, but ultimately, does it matter? This story will hit the news cycle, and will hopefully bring up discussions in households. And frankly, even if the actual story is fake, this has likely happened to men in the past. What's great about that section on Reddit - are the life lessons that can be gleaned from the comments on AITAH threads. So often we don't know certain behaviors are manipulative -> or perhaps we have some of those behaviors ourselves but can't see them for what they are. While Reddit is not the arbiter of truth or morality, the back and forth discussions can be quite illuminating.

Problem is, how many females would agree with her and guys who'd go meekly along with this atrocious behaviour.

Probably most of them. Not to sound bitter, but that's a one-way street. I cannot fathom a scenario where a guy dictates what his +1 wears.

Final thought, there could be a lot more bubbling under the surface in this case, the kilt issue being just a symptom of much deeper problems in their relationship.

Some in the Reddit thread hinted this could be indications of a manipulative personality. I mean... I don't know how accurate that assessment can be on a single incident (and told without input from the other person) but it's very suspicious. However, my best guess is, this guy will not be allowed to wear a kilt if they ever tie the knot.

[Uncle Al]

Read the article
The original poster needs, IMHO, to dump his 'girlfriend' as she is not worthy of him

Just my $.02 worth

Uncle Al

[Barleymower]

I agree, he should find another girl.
What is slightly alarming is that the next girl may have the same opinion and he'll run into the same problem.
The problem may be how men are seen in society, how society treats men and how society values men.

[STEVIE]

Read the article
The original poster needs, IMHO, to dump his 'girlfriend' as she is not worthy of him

Just my $.02 worth

Al, love is blind I should know.
Put another way, none so blind as those who will not see.
Steve

[crfriend]

If that guy is smart, he'll run like the wind from that controlling type.

[mr seamstress]

If that guy is smart, he'll run like the wind from that controlling type.

Since the relationship is damage I disagree he should run for the hills and junk her like a wreck auto. I believe one step should be taken before such drastic actions. That step he should take is to grab her hand and try counseling services and make sure their relationship is beyond repair. If it is beyond repair, yes he should junk her like a wreck auto that is beyond repair. This way he can have no regrets that he did everything to save the relationship.
If you wreck an auto and love that auto, you take that auto to a repair shop and find out if it can be restore. If this couple has true love love for each other then they both should seek help from counseling services and find if their relationship can be fix.

[Coder]

If this couple has true love love for each other then they both should seek help from counseling services and find if their relationship can be fix.

I'm very skeptical people who are of that type - especially early on in a relationship - are apt to change. But let's say - for sake of argument - this is the only thing she objects to. The mindset - that men's clothing choices are controlled by women - is insidious, pervasive, and in a lot of people's minds a "god given right". I highly doubt any amount of counseling will change that mindset, because no one asks the question "Why does the woman in the relationship have authority over her man's clothes, but not the other way around?"*.

I hope this doesn't come across as misogynist or bitter - I really believe both parties in a relationship should have autonomy in their clothing if they want it - and if they want approval or control by the other then it's up to themselves to cede ownership - and not the partner to coerce them. I also think there can be some back and forth - ie, "that shirt looks good on you" where it helps the other be more presentable or enhance their appearance. But that's not what was happening in that Reddit post.


*I suspect this comes from the fact that men generally don't take to fashion when they are young, and that their fathers don't give it much thought or importance. The only way we change that is by breaking the cycle.

[mr seamstress]

If this couple has true love love for each other then they both should seek help from counseling services and find if their relationship can be fix.

I'm very skeptical people who are of that type - especially early on in a relationship - are apt to change. But let's say - for sake of argument - this is the only thing she objects to. The mindset - that men's clothing choices are controlled by women - is insidious, pervasive, and in a lot of people's minds a "god given right". I highly doubt any amount of counseling will change that mindset, because no one asks the question "Why does the woman in the relationship have authority over her man's clothes, but not the other way around?"*.

I hope this doesn't come across as misogynist or bitter - I really believe both parties in a relationship should have autonomy in their clothing if they want it - and if they want approval or control by the other then it's up to themselves to cede ownership - and not the partner to coerce them. I also think there can be some back and forth - ie, "that shirt looks good on you" where it helps the other be more presentable or enhance their appearance. But that's not what was happening in that Reddit post.


*I suspect this comes from the fact that men generally don't take to fashion when they are young, and that their fathers don't give it much thought or importance. The only way we change that is by breaking the cycle.

By your view in putting in proper perspective is this: We men shouldn't even try to change people's minds about us having a right and be accepted in wearing anything, because it's a waste of time and the odds is against us getting to change their minds. Such a negatived view you have. It's your view there is no passible way in saving this relationship, because there is no way in changing her view she has about her BF wearing a kilt. Why do you bother wanting to change people minds about what you wear and be accepted by them of your choices? I have to ask.

I personally want to end all this hate whenever it's possible. I'm going to try even when the odds is against me in accomplish a feat. I'm not going just let the odds against to stop me. As for these couple relationship I hope this man make one last effort to find out for sure if there is anyway to save this relationship. Do anyone may consider that the woman maybe is getting bad influence from someone for her being the way she is and counseling can end this?

[STEVIE]

*I suspect this comes from the fact that men generally don't take to fashion when they are young, and that their fathers don't give it much thought or importance. The only way we change that is by breaking the cycle.

I personally want to end all this hate whenever it's possible. I'm going to try even when the odds is against me in accomplish a feat. I'm not going just let the odds against to stop me. As for these couple relationship I hope this man make one last effort to find out for sure if there is anyway to save this relationship. Do anyone may consider that the woman maybe is getting bad influence from someone for her being the way she is and counseling can end this?

Boys tend to be actively discouraged from having experiments with fashion choices, that is cissy/girly behaviour and just no the done thing for a boy.
Girls in boyish clothes are thought of as cute little tomboys, a positive affirmation if ever there was one and the onset of the double standard we lament today.
On a general basis, females/mothers dictate what a boy will wear but simultaneously give his twin sister free-rein.
With regard to our couple, both of them have been equally exposed to this conditioning.
Our young man is talking about a kilt, not a skirt! This is important because in all likelihood, he wouldn't think of himself as skirted when dressed in one.
The girl does not appear to have a problem with the kilt, per se, but the reaction it could generate from other guests, it will get too much attention.

I don't believe that he just head for the hills either, if there is dialogue between them, maybe lessons can be learnt and the relationship strengthened as a result.

She'd maybe be happy to let him attend alone or he could do a 50% kilt for the ceremony and tartan trews for the festivities afterwards.
The whole point is that they should be left alone and given space to work it out and if counselling could assist, give it a try.
Steve.

[Spirou003]

Stevie: I totally agree with you regarding the couple. We are speaking about it because the item of discordance was what unites us, but I believe any other item with similar effect (getting more attention than usual) would have had the same effect on her (introvert).
As for boys and fashion, from my childhood (20 years ago) I think that the relation has changed. I remember other boys having discussions about fashion, more exactly about the "latest fashion" which they were often willing to follow... not always. There were boys willing to follow their own way as well. As for how much freedom they gave themselve for discovering their own way, this is another matter and I have no idea what is the answer. At that time, I was not giving a f*** what I looked like, so long as I felt confortable with what I wore. Appearance was definitely not in my agenda, and I couldn't anyway decide it (not that it would have changed my mind at that time, I'm stupidly stubborn at times): I was mainly wearing clothes received from elder brothers, due to monetary concerns. I also remember that at the rare occasions I have had to go shopping with my mother, she pushed me to try something new but I was like "I don't care, I just want something confortable" or when I cared, it was about the function not the appearance. Eventually said less politely. (Yes, I've been very stupid)

[Coder]

By your view in putting in proper perspective is this: We men shouldn't even try to change people's minds about us having a right and be accepted in wearing anything, because it's a waste of time and the odds is against us getting to change their minds. Such a negatived view you have. It's your view there is no passible way in saving this relationship, because there is no way in changing her view she has about her BF wearing a kilt. Why do you bother wanting to change people minds about what you wear and be accepted by them of your choices? I have to ask.

I feel like it is a herculean uphill battle. As for the relationship... I dunno. It could be made up - it's the internet, so I don't get too wrapped up in the drama (which AITAH on Reddit is all about - the drama). When talking about a generic relationship - say a situation like what happened... I guess I'm jaded by the stories other guys write here - if their spouses weren't on-board at the outset, they never or haven't come around.

I personally want to end all this hate whenever it's possible.

I hope you don't read "hate" from what I wrote - my take is more a cynical/depressed view of humanity.

Our young man is talking about a kilt, not a skirt! This is important because in all likelihood, he wouldn't think of himself as skirted when dressed in one.
The girl does not appear to have a problem with the kilt, per se, but the reaction it could generate from other guests, it will get too much attention.

I don't believe that he just head for the hills either, if there is dialogue between them, maybe lessons can be learnt and the relationship strengthened as a result.

I guess I didn't focus on that aspect - the embarrassment angle - but if she doesn't get over it now, future kilting is also out the window.

[crfriend]

I guess I didn't focus on that aspect - the embarrassment angle - but if she doesn't get over it now, future kilting is also out the window.

As is a seemingly important part of his personality and who he is.

I may have been a bit quick on the trigger with "Run like the wind.", but in circumstances like this, to this old boy, it sounds one heck of a lot like controlling tactics on her part and not caring about his his viewpoint -- and that's not healthy for any relationship.

A great relationship is always greater than the sum of its parts, but once overt control tactics start getting deployed -- by either partner -- it's usually disaster. And it was the machinations of the woman in the quoted article that set my teeth on edge, merely badgering her "partner" might be excused, but going behind his back goes beyond the pale.