Independent article on de-gendering fashion

[Stevej180]

This starts off being about a swimming costume, but then turns out to be a wider piece about de-gendering fashion and fashion freedom, subjects which will strike a chord with many people here I'm sure...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/mo ... ments-area

[Mouse]

This starts off being about a swimming costume, but then turns out to be a wider piece about de-gendering fashion and fashion freedom, subjects which will strike a chord with many people here I'm sure...

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/mo ... ments-area

Interesting read, written by someone coming from the other direction to most of us, but understanding the issues many of us run into.

[Myopic Bookworm]

Yes, it reiterates a comment that I have been hearing since the 1970s: the development of so-called "unisex" lines has been almost entirely a colonization of menswear by women, without significant movement in the opposite direction.

[STEVIE]

Agreed MB, it is like paperless offices and the the year for men in skirts to truly lift-off, when?
I rather like this take on "unisex"

"This lazy approach is often referred to as “shrink it and pink it”, a statement on how this half-baked attempt at creating gender neutral clothing serves only a portion of the general population."

Since clothing has no gender in the first place, kind of a pointless exercise really and half-baked actually just plain stupid.
Had the writer been a seven year old boy wanting a dress for that wedding, perhaps mummy might not have been quite so yummy though.
Final thought, many of us have already "degendered" fashion by simply ignoring pointless labels and outdated attitudes, sure works for me anyway.
Steve.

[Modoc]

Yes, it reiterates a comment that I have been hearing since the 1970s: the development of so-called "unisex" lines has been almost entirely a colonization of menswear by women, without significant movement in the opposite direction.

I think that's true because men seem to be waiting for someone else to do it for us, present company excluded of course. Maybe some are waiting for a kind of spontaneous mass uprising. Either that or those of us who have taken that step toward wardrobe freedom grossly overestimate the number of men who are likely to join in, and therefore, it will, always be a relatively small club.

[STEVIE]

Either that or those of us who have taken that step toward wardrobe freedom grossly overestimate the number of men who are likely to join in, and therefore, it will, always be a relatively small club.

On the balance of probability, I think you have it right Modoc.
Those waiting in the wings, even here, will be waiting for a long long time.
Oddly, one my earliest "borrowed" items was a swimmer, certainly nothing like that one though.
Steve.

[Grok]

It may well be that only a small minority of men would wear skirts on a regular basis. Call them the (potential) core group.

Another group of men might be willing to wear skirts occasionally, if somebody else has already paved the way.

And perhaps the majority of men would have no interest at all.

[crfriend]

From my vantage point, it does not surprise me one bit that most men will not be interested in adopting skirted garments. Why?

1) Humans -- and men especially -- are herd animals,
2) Men are somewhat more prone to self, and external policing than women,
3) Women do not tolerate guys in skirts very well, and WILL try to "convert" them back into Corporate Drones,
4) Finding a suitable partner if you're a man in a skirt is a daunting prospect and likely doomed to failure.

The list goes on from there for several more items, but there's the crux of it. We're trying to shift a world that's likely not ready to be shifted yet, and have a whole lot of opposition.

Thus it'll be "the few and the brave" that adopt skirted rigs -- mainly the ones with nothing left to lose and the ones who know they'll spend the rest of their lives as bachelors to die cold and alone.

In closing, can we please stop using the coded term "unisex". It was a fraud when it was coined, and anybody who's been around for more than a decade knows that cold. Like "[rad-fem hate-speech redacted]", we should not give it credence by using it. Full stop.

[jamie001]

From my vantage point, it does not surprise me one bit that most men will not be interested in adopting skirted garments. Why?

1) Humans -- and men especially -- are herd animals,
2) Men are somewhat more prone to self, and external policing than women,
3) Women do not tolerate guys in skirts very well, and WILL try to "convert" them back into Corporate Drones,
4) Finding a suitable partner if you're a man in a skirt is a daunting prospect and likely doomed to failure.

The list goes on from there for several more items, but there's the crux of it. We're trying to shift a world that's likely not ready to be shifted yet, and have a whole lot of opposition.

Thus it'll be "the few and the brave" that adopt skirted rigs -- mainly the ones with nothing left to lose and the ones who know they'll spend the rest of their lives as bachelors to die cold and alone.

In closing, can we please stop using the coded term "unisex". It was a fraud when it was coined, and anybody who's been around for more than a decade knows that cold. Like "[rad-fem hate-speech redacted]", we should not give it credence by using it. Full stop.

I agree with CR's post except for #4. You are not looking in the right places. Try female engineers and/or artsy types such as female artists or musicians. I am married but am approached by women that are interested and appreciate a feminine male.

[Grok]

Thus it'll be "the few and the brave" that adopt skirted rigs -- mainly the ones with nothing left to lose and the ones who know they'll spend the rest of their lives as bachelors to die cold and alone.

I am 67 years old. Have always been single. Never had a girlfriend (started looking for one when I was 29).

Finally gave up on women in 2003. I figured that I was getting a bit old to start raising a family, and at the time there were no prospects. I recall the day that I decided to give up. I felt a sense of relief. To celebrate, I went to see Master and Commander, the Far Side of the World.

It was well after that that I made my first purchase, a Utilikilt, Mocker version.

[crfriend]

I agree with CR's post except for #4. You are not looking in the right places. Try female engineers and/or artsy types such as female artists or musicians. I am married but am approached by women that are interested and appreciate a feminine male.

The latest attempt was a retired EE (electrical engineer) who specialised in microwave comms -- and was darned good at it. It didn't help.

I have plenty of women friends; that's not a problem. However, making the subsequent jump is extremely daunting, and that's where the pushback manifests.

[Grok]

I can imagine a possible game changer. If IVG can be made to work for men More specifically, solo IVG. When an ovum is derived from the male's tissues, and is then fertilized by that same male's sperm.

A surrogate would need to be hired for her womb. But otherwise, a way for a man to continue his bloodline with minimal involvement by women.

No doubt being very expensive. But trying to reproduce in term of an old fashioned family is now very expensive, with alimony and child support (the average marriage last 8 years), losing your house, etc.

And if somebody would just hurry up and invent an artificial womb....

[crfriend]

And if somebody would just hurry up and invent an artificial womb....

Whither, then, the more important matters of love, compassion, camaraderie, and companionship? Will those be sacrificed on the altar of simple base reproduction? At that point, I'd rather be alone.

[Spirou003]

Same than you crfriend. I prefer to have a life partner and no child, than having child(ren) but no life partner.

As for being approached by woman, I used to know a guy who was in a stable relationship. He was often approached by nice women. The day they broke up, suddenly the women disappeared, no one was approaching him anymore. He however didn't looked depressive at all. Being approached by women is one of those mysteries in the world that can't be explained

[STEVIE]

Try female engineers and/or artsy types such as female artists or musicians. I am married but am approached by women that are interested and appreciate a feminine male.

Jamie, my daughter is a Mechanical Design Engineer in the oil industry, she wouldn't be seen dead with a guy in a skirt.
She isn't happy with her old man for it either!
I talk to woman all the time, who can be most approving of my stance on clothes, but that does not translate into anything more than platonic interest with some novelty value thrown in.
Your married, what is your wife's occupation?
Steve.