Male Drab

[Coder]

Tonight at mass some youth dressed up in traditional polish folk clothing. Or should I say, the girls did. The boys wore... drum roll... khakis and white shirts. A thought occurred to me - it's likely there is some traditional male polish clothing - but the guys were too afraid to wear it due to feer pressure (sorry, bad "pun").

So this got me to start googling "traditional polish clothing" and sure enough, the men do get quite a bit of flair and pomp that in todays society would either be coded feminine or just "odd". And yet, while women feel at ease (erm, just going by what I'm seeing in general, not just this one instance) to don historical and colorful garb, men will choose boring and soulless clothes because it's safer.

I'm sure there are other factors at play (cost, effort, etc...) - and I could care less the reasons why they chose what they chose to wear. It's the trend that I see which is a shame - bing fearful of being colorful or taking a risk that one might look foolish.

[Faldaguy]

Indeed Coder, that is why when asked about my skirt wearing (and sometimes I just put it out there) that beyond comfort my concern for men being in a "regimented rut of conformity" is that it may be a way to help move men not just from their clothing prison, but also to actually thinking for themselves -- we might even get past the limited emotional development of fear and anger as the only acceptable modes of expression!

[Uncle Al]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT !

* * * "regimented rut of conformity" is that it may be a way to help move men not just from their clothing prison,
but also to actually thinking for themselves* * *

A general question about "regimented rut of conformity" is,
Who purchases the clothing for the family

I'ld answer that by saying in 85-90% of households, the woman of the house,
buys the clothing for the rest of the family. So, what input does the man
of the house have to say on the clothing choices he is given


Uncle Al

[STEVIE]

I'ld answer that by saying in 85-90% of households, the woman of the house,
buys the clothing for the rest of the family. So, what input does the man
of the house have to say on the clothing choices he is given

Historically and in some modern cultures you may be correct Al.
Of course, our female counterparts still have input, but if an adult male allows this to occur he has only himself to blame.
The influences on boys work differently and traditionally we were influenced mainly by our mothers.
As a father, myself I played as full a role in my kids lives as I could and that certainly included clothes, boy and girl.
The sad fact of male drab is just as much the fault of men as women.
Coder is correct, boys must be encouraged to think, experiment and experience much more widely and on their own terms.
That responsibility lies with everyone, male, female or whatever shade you care to mention.
Steve.

[Ozdelights]

I'ld answer that by saying in 85-90% of households, the woman of the house,
buys the clothing for the rest of the family. So, what input does the man
of the house have to say on the clothing choices he is given

I'd have to agree with Steve's assessment. Men are now more often buying their own but are heavily influenced by their partner. Isn't that what many of us are fighting against in what we wear day to day?
Barry

[greenboots]

I admitted to my spouse today that I moderate my clothing choices because I expect her to comment on anything out of the ordinary.

[Modoc]

Pictures of me from the 70s are sure to get a rise out of the youngsters and many of the not-so-young at family gatherings. I had big hair and flashy clothes and platform shoes, tight bell-bottomed pants, and puffy-sleeved, brightly printed shirts. Of course, that was the disco era, and those were my going-out clothes, but even my day clothes were pretty flamboyant compared to most. If I wore shorts, they were short and somewhat snug.
That was pretty common for the time with the non-office group. The fun was in the comparison from the me of then to the me of the 90s until just recently. Of course, not just me, but pretty much every guy had gone through the transformation. I couldn't begin to tell you why it just happened. We were suddenly in uniform, as my daughter would later describe it. As a matter of fact, it was after a luncheon with that same daughter, after she had described my drab dress as uniform, that I decided to wear a skirt to our next meeting. She didn't say a word, only smiled approvingly.
I wear skirts about 50% of the time when out, but even at that, pretty plain ones. I do like ones that are longer and wider, and that seems to be an attention-drawing factor.
I once had a terse exchange with a gentleman on Quora who claimed to be a full-time skirt wearer and was adamant about stating that only knee-length sturdy skirts were manly and everything else was feminization. How absurd.

[JohnH]

I once had a terse exchange with a gentleman on Quora who claimed to be a full-time skirt wearer and was adamant about stating that only knee-length sturdy skirts were manly and everything else was feminization. How absurd.

I don't give a whit about anything looking manly. I wear whatever looks good, masculine or feminine. I like to dress in a formal manner when the occasion calls for, but I have an aversion to the deep rut of coat, tie, and trousers men have gotten themselves into for formal wear.
My typical formal wear is a dress, makeup, heels, and hosiery.

John

[Mouse]

I think we are all influenced by people close to us. However the step change has to be made at some point to put your own happiness first and wear that garment you have always wanted to wear out in public and proudly face the world and say this is me. The funny thing is most of the world will just carry on with a big SO WHAT!!!! Obviously location is a big caveat to this. I happen to live in the UK and work in London so feel totally at home in my skirt. I realise that I am fortunate to live where I live and others have to be more careful.
With reference to the ‘Male Drab’, the last thing I want is more rules on my skirt length or colour. I love bright colours and have a very varied set of stockings which I love to wear. My set of skirts is getting more vivid, but small steps. Sometimes a somber dark skirt is required especially on days when confidence is in short supply, other days the crazier and brighter the skirt the better! Have fun in you wardrobe and own it.

[Barleymower]

I think we are all influenced by people close to us. However the step change has to be made at some point to put your own happiness first and wear that garment you have always wanted to wear out in public and proudly face the world and say this is me. The funny thing is most of the world will just carry on with a big SO WHAT!!!! Obviously location is a big caveat to this. I happen to live in the UK and work in London so feel totally at home in my skirt. I realise that I am fortunate to live where I live and others have to be more careful.
With reference to the ‘Male Drab’, the last thing I want is more rules on my skirt length or colour. I love bright colours and have a very varied set of stockings which I love to wear. My set of skirts is getting more vivid, but small steps. Sometimes a somber dark skirt is required especially on days when confidence is in short supply, other days the crazier and brighter the skirt the better! Have fun in you wardrobe and own it.

Perhaps you have been going longer than me mouse and I need a bit more time to adjust,.maybe I just need to get it out of my system?
Truth is that I love my skirt collection, I think it is slightly conservative compared to you. It's conservative because I'm locked in male drab. That is I feel comfortable in male drab, why not? I've worn just that for 57 years. I was envious the whole time of the ladies and now I'm doing my own thing I feel out of sorts and I can't seem to get past that.

[STEVIE]

With reference to the ‘Male Drab’, the last thing I want is more rules on my skirt length or colour. I love bright colours and have a very varied set of stockings which I love to wear. My set of skirts is getting more vivid, but small steps.

Truth is that I love my skirt collection, I think it is slightly conservative compared to you. It's conservative because I'm locked in male drab. That is I feel comfortable in male drab, why not?

Interesting and varied takes guys, that is how it should be.
Take out the "male drab" and you are left with reflections on clothing which could be made by anyone and I do mean any BODY!
I recall a time when such comments would have been unthinkable, progress?
My faith can be restored sometimes.
Steve

[Mouse]

We are all on a journey from where we’re ordinarily men in public to where we are now. I was always dressed in black jeans, T-shirt etc for all my life in public. It is only in the last 10 years that I have become less Male Drab in public. I only bought my first utility kilt in 2016 which was where my two sides started to merge from a skirt point of view. Previously to that I had got my ears pierced and stretched to 10 mm. Since then there has been merging of my secret skirt wearing to my public self. The Male Drab is still there in what skirt I wear for work, mixed with coloured stockings or tights. Free time depends on where I am going and who I am with. Sometimes when going out with my wife I will come down dressed and be met with “are you sure?” Depending on how I feel, I may retreat or argue my case… I am very fortunate to have a wife who has come along with my journey. I think we all should be able to go out in a range of skirts. Some days a ‘drab’ black skirt may feel just right, other days a totally out there skirt may be just right. Be happy.

[Tazzmac]

Its a good term ...male drab . Generally that's what blokes clothing is a lot of the time . For all of my life I've conformed to normal and often that translates to drab and boring .
In a lot of ways it's because we are dictated to as what to wear. Probably happened since we stood erect from the apes . Who knows .

Fear of ridicule stops me stepping out among my town of 1000 people in a kilt . I want to but I just can't outright do it . Those kilts afford me a certain freedom though when I chuck one on to take my dogs on a bushwalk or at home . Otherwise it really is male drab .

Recently a very close female friend noticed I was not my normal positive self . We went for a coffee one morning because she wanted to find out if I was okay , During that conversation I let it out to her that I occasionally throw on a kilt .Initially she was surprised I think but smiled ., Later that day I thought a lot more about our great conversation , not just about kilts but everything .. That evening I took a couple of selfies with me in a couple of my kilts .. The next morning with some trepidation I sent her a couple of the shots .

I found it quite exciting actually . Sort of a coming out moment for me in regard to my kilt interests .. Her reaction was priceless and asked if she could show the pics to her husband . I said yes. This is a step for me that helps .

I absolutely know that it's nothing to be ashamed about in wearing kilts or skirts . I'm not ashamed but fearful . Lots of our locals are ultra conservative and conventional . I grew up with many of them . I am friends with some too . I find it extremely difficult to think that what I wear might stop that . And the reality is that it would . Greatest respect to those of you who live in more liberal parts of our orb but living in a small rural community in this regard is not easy with this in mind .

So , for the most part in regard to clothing it's indeed male drab but punctuated with some great kilts that feel great , some look great on me apparently according to my friend and a handful others others mostly neighbours at different times .

While this pic is a long way from what I do wear I do wear and like slightly shorter than standard 24" kilts. Around 22 to 23". I got a great reaction from my friend a few days after the initial selfies..She didn't show her hubby this one though ..

IMG_20240108_153713 - Copy.jpg

I wore it at my normal on the hip height and it is a woman's short kilt anyway but bought it on a whim a few years back . It's the only short one I have ..

One day maybe ...hopefully by the time I retire or I'm too old to have fear of my peers I'll leave some drab behind a lot more .

Cheers ..

[Faldaguy]

by Tazzmac » Fri Jan 12, 2024 2:19 pm

Its a good term ...male drab . Generally that's what blokes clothing is a lot of the time . For all of my life I've conformed to normal.... Fear of ridicule stops me stepping out among my town of 1000 people.... I absolutely know that it's nothing to be ashamed about in wearing kilts or skirts . I'm not ashamed but fearful . Lots of our locals are ultra conservative and conventional . I grew up with many of them . I am friends with some too . I find it extremely difficult to think that what I wear might stop that . And the reality is that it would . And you also wrote: Her reaction was priceless and asked if she could show the pics to her husband . I said yes. This is a step for me that helps .

Congratulations on that step, it is actually a bigger one than you might think. Our fears typically arise more from what other men might say, 'or do' and from our immediate family than from the women folk -- so you've outed yourself to a degree here already -- the the word will likely spread. But what concerns me is your statement: "And the reality is that it would." On what do you base this -- I suspect it is your fear, not an objective reality; as you've no doubt read here many times from others.

I too live in a small village, the immediate permanent population probably is half your size; and the entire region is about 6000 +/- in a Macho Latin country. I think from my experience, here and in other places where I am known, it is actually easier than in those where I am not. I agree the 'fear' factor was amplified when first skirting among locals, rather than strangers -- but over the years as I have had the opportunity to visit more places, I now find it easier for known acquaintances to adapt to your new habits than it is for strangers. I think we need to spread the message that being known is helpful -- those folks know you as a person already, that in itself gives you some 'standing and respect' whereas a stranger in the midst is more readily dismissed as weird simply because that is all they see -- a stranger in a strange outfit rather than their friend whom they already know to be a solid bloke.

A curiosity, what part of Oz are you in? Aside from some limited acquaintances, I faced your Mates cold for the the two years I was there and never had any pushback. Perhaps it is the strong Aussie sense of individual entitlement that gives off an air of judgment but it also grants everyone the freedom to do their own thing. Regardless of your next steps, congratulations on the insights and the last big one taken -- not a bad launch pad!

[Tazzmac]

G'day...Tasmania ... We are the island State and the most southern .,Capital city is Hobart around 260,000 people and 570,000 across the State ..Very beautiful place ..Mountains everywhere , 300 named rivers , about 3000 lakes and tarns including Lake St.Clair which is the deepest lake in the southern hemisphere ...Tassie is the world's 26th biggest island and about the same area as Sri Lanka , Ireland and West Virginia .. Geography out of the way .. Yes , I sadly do have a reality that if I wore my kilts everywhere there are enough ' too set in their ways' people that would out me to varying degrees .. I'm still young enough that this upsets me so I have yet to be able to ger past that . Everybody knows me . I write a column for our local periodical as well ..Have done so for about 25 years . I'm currently the President of our Golf Club (also lawn bowls integrated into the complex) . I'm not really gregarious in any way .. Kind of shy some would say but I love kilts . I have also Irish and Scottish DNA . Not that this really makes any difference anyway whether you want to don a kilt or not..
The reality and the ideal are two different things unfortunately . I get on with virtually everybody , can talk to just about anyone and nearly always a sounding board for lots of my friends which I guess is respect and a certain admirable quality . I'm also a person that worries about things way too much . I have also a real problem taking risks and hold back way too much . I guess therein lies the problem with kilts generally in public to this day .
Nobody else I know living here or nearby wears them .. Not a soul .. I'd be it . I absolutely admire those of you who do ..Also very envious but thrilled to see it on tis Forum that in many places kilties are much more readily accepted .. THAT'S COOL ..
I am truly blessed that I have a dear female friend I confide in and who I occasionally reciprocate who helps me greatly , She is a treasure and a true friend . , I reconcile my fears with that I'm not totally still in the closet but I do regularly go bushwalking kilted ..have met the odd person or two doing it and can cope with that . This eases me a lot . I'd like to think that after I finish work (local district school ) maybe as soon as 12 months that it will get easier. I guess a crucial thing is my work place . Lots of teenagers and it'd be a big risk if some knew too much about what many of them would call a man in a skirt with the narrow and wrong connotations that invariably carries .. It is of course wrong but it is equally a reality for me .
I will always love the non drabness (this thread topic) of kilts , the general liberation for that exact reason and the admiration and dare I say envy of lots of you guys with the self conviction to wear kilts /man skirts and dresses if you wish .. That is very great and inspirational and gives me hope I'll completely join you with my kilts one day ..And get out of the drabness of convention .

Thank you so much for responding . Cheers ,,