Interesting old (oct 2020) Mumsnet forum, mainly about Mark Bryan

[Barleymower]

There is a line to be drawn. Women are well aware of the lines of decency and they can't agree on it. If one of their own crosses the line, they react and make clear what's acceptable and what is not. There's a whole continuous battle among women folk about acceptability in dress. One thing they seem, I say 'seem' because I am an external observer, to agree on: if a man crosses the line and takes 'their skirts" then he's not going get a girlfriend. This btw is not universal but there are enough women to take this attitude to make the difference. I don't blame them really.

Here's a little story from my life which I think (in my mind) rationalises the status quo between men and women:
I was 17 and said the wrong thing to a much bigger guy: Blackmore. He was a car mechanic and a boxer. He punched me and my face swelled up. 41 years later, I'm a different person to that skinny boy but I'm not sure I could out my hand to him.
Women in general are not ready to be nice yet. There's more face punching to be done before that day.

It makes it easier for me. I'm not looking acceptance which isn't coming. Doesn't mean I'm not affected by my conditioning because I really am and it really p... annoys me.

[STEVIE]

One thing they seem, I say 'seem' because I am an external observer, to agree on: if a man crosses the line and takes 'their skirts" then he's not going get a girlfriend.

......and all the tik-tokkers ,tweeters , influencers and red carpet catwalk celebrities will make no damn difference to that changing anytime soon.

Steve.

[Barleymower]

One thing they seem, I say 'seem' because I am an external observer, to agree on: if a man crosses the line and takes 'their skirts" then he's not going get a girlfriend.

......and all the tik-tokkers ,tweeters , influencers and red carpet catwalk celebrities will make no damn difference to that changing anytime soon.

Steve.

But then Stevie, they are picky because they can be picky. If male fashion freedom became more widespread. They would swifty change their mind.

[crfriend]

[Women] are picky because they can be picky. If male fashion freedom became more widespread. They would swifty change their mind.

As a thought experiment, wind this thought forward a few moves. It'll reveal the circular logic that's holding any and all progress at bay.

Men are not going to move because the women won't, and the women won't move because they don't care, or, worse, have active disdain for the perception that guys are "invading their space". Recall, "Those who rock the cradle rule the world." The women are going to have to move first, and they're not about to. Why should they?

Hell, my last attempt at lighting a romance failed partly because my interest could not wrap her head around my sense of style and was questioning it until the bitter end. And I'd explained it to her several times.

[Barleymower]

[Women] are picky because they can be picky. If male fashion freedom became more widespread. They would swifty change their mind.

As a thought experiment, wind this thought forward a few moves. It'll reveal the circular logic that's holding any and all progress at bay.

Men are not going to move because the women won't, and the women won't move because they don't care, or, worse, have active disdain for the perception that guys are "invading their space". Recall, "Those who rock the cradle rule the world." The women are going to have to move first, and they're not about to. Why should they?

Hell, my last attempt at lighting a romance failed partly because my interest could not wrap her head around my sense of style and was questioning it until the bitter end. And I'd explained it to her several times.

Men go to extraordinary lengths to get a girl. Girls are always saying no and yet they are always there.
Maybe the skirts are not up for negotiation but something else will be. Why suggest a makeover? If the skirts have to go then maybe it will never work but maybe some new styles?
Love will find a way.

[crfriend]

Love will find a way.

In fairy tales, yes. Real life is vastly more cruel. She shot the relationship dead last night and this morning. It's not coming back.

As far as general female acceptance skirts on guys goes? That's anybody's guess, but the smart money is likely riding on, "No."

[Barleymower]

In a literal sense: the Human race would not come to an end over clothing choices
This proves that change is possible and inevitable in the right circumstances.

[crfriend]

Nah, humans are not going to go extinct on the planet, although it might be a good idea, There will always be those stupid enough or stubborn enough to breed. But what will happen from that is a dramatic dumbing down of the capability of the species to properly evolve and move forward.

I'm hoping I won't be around to see that.

[STEVIE]

If male fashion freedom became more widespread. They would swifty change their mind.

If male fashion freedom ever happens, it will not be because of those mentioned and I don't give a damn about who thinks that's wrong.
Even if it did, women can change their minds as often as their underwear or at a pace more suited to continental drift.
Our fashion freedom is not likely to change that either.
Right now, optimism is just not a word in my vocabulary.
Steve.

[Barleymower]

Nah, humans are not going to go extinct on the planet, although it might be a good idea, There will always be those stupid enough or stubborn enough to breed. But what will happen from that is a dramatic dumbing down of the capability of the species to properly evolve and move forward.

I'm hoping I won't be around to see that.

Old saying:
"What you you think about you bring about"

The way I see it is like driving a car. If you always look where you want to be, you will get there. If you look at the ditch by the side of the road, you will drift into it.

[Barleymower]

If male fashion freedom became more widespread. They would swifty change their mind.

If male fashion freedom ever happens, it will not be because of those mentioned and I don't give a damn about who thinks that's wrong.
Even if it did, women can change their minds as often as their underwear or at a pace more suited to continental drift.
Our fashion freedom is not likely to change that either.
Right now, optimism is just not a word in my vocabulary.
Steve.

I live in the same world and face the same challenges. I agree with what you say.

I am however still optimistic. For example I was watching "Loudermilk" yesterday (really good btw on netflix) and New guy (Ricky Blitt) was talking about Trouser Tyranny.

It's out there, men want this and it's guys like us that will make it happen.

[crfriend]

The way I see it is like driving a car. If you always look where you want to be, you will get there. If you look at the ditch by the side of the road, you will drift into it.

You must have interesting roads. I'd say that 99.99% of the time I have no visual of my destination other than a mental one. Actually driving there means knowing how to get there and potentially several hundreds or even thousands of split-second driving decisions, mostly when somebody does something stupid in front of me in their Chelsea Tractor and forces a change in course, speed, or both.

In any event, I attempt to maintain a somewhat positive frame of mind about the vast majority of things. I'm just not confident that the "costume problem" will ever be satisfactorily solved. And the termination of my last attempt at romance -- partially for the reason that she steadfastly refused to fully accept my appearance -- hasn't helped matters in that regard.

[Barleymower]

The way I see it is like driving a car. If you always look where you want to be, you will get there. If you look at the ditch by the side of the road, you will drift into it.

You must have interesting roads. I'd say that 99.99% of the time I have no visual of my destination other than a mental one. Actually driving there means knowing how to get there and potentially several hundreds or even thousands of split-second driving decisions, mostly when somebody does something stupid in front of me in their Chelsea Tractor and forces a change in course, speed, or both.

In any event, I attempt to maintain a somewhat positive frame of mind about the vast majority of things. I'm just not confident that the "costume problem" will ever be satisfactorily solved. And the termination of my last attempt at romance -- partially for the reason that she steadfastly refused to fully accept my appearance -- hasn't helped matters in that regard.

Talk to her about it. Listen to her. What works for her, what doesn't? You don't need to make changes which are unacceptable but you might find a compromise.

[crfriend]

Talk to her about it. Listen to her. What works for her, what doesn't? You don't need to make changes which are unacceptable but you might find a compromise.

There's no point. She shot the thing dead on Saturday morning with a series of TXT messages and her 22:50 double phone-call to me on Friday night after we both agreed amicably that I needed several good nights' sleep.

I need to find a way to disable SMS on my mobile.

[geron]

I need to find a way to disable SMS on my mobile.

You may be able to delete your messaging app. But alternatively you can block individual senders, which will have fewer side-effects.