Skirt over pants

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
Coder
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Skirt over pants

Post by Coder »

I know a lot of people here - myself included - bristle at the "skirt over pants" look. I'm sure we each have our own very good reasons to dislike this look. At the end of the day, fashion freedom really should extend to that style as well, so I won't condemn those who try it out.

I've been trying to get through "The Psychology of Clothes" (1940) by John Carl Flugel, it's just difficult at times to stay awake whilst reading it!

I ran across this passage, from page 175, which I found kind of interesting:
John Carl Flugel wrote:This last fact, that the waistcoat had a collar and that this collar has a vestigial feature showing that the collar could be turned up, serves to remind us that the waistcoat itself is the relic of an outer garment, the upper part of which could be raised so as to protect the back of the neck. What was originally an outer garment has, in this case, become an inner garment; and this, in turn, illustrates an interesting feature to which historians of dress have drawn attention, namely, that when a new garment is adopted, there is a tendency for it to be put on over the old garment. This tendency has probably played an important part in the development of dress. Just as particular features of dress are slow to dis-appear, so also are individual garments themselves, which may persist even under circumstances that one would expect to lead to their disappearance. Sometimes, as here, an older garment is not displaced, but merely covered a process analogous to that which psychoanalysis has shown to take place in the course of mental development). The significance of this tendency for the history of clothing as a whole lies largely in the fact that it leads to an increase in the number of layers, one above the other, of which a costume may consist.*

*Though of course it is very far from being true that all inner garments or underclothes were originally outer garments.
I've bolded the opportune sentence. I think when we see skirts being designed to go over pants, it's sort of harkening back to this mode or behavior he describes.

Is his theory bunk? Does it apply to skirt-over-pants? From time to time we get into heated debate over which skirt (design, material) would usher in acceptance and wear by men - I wonder if this theory has any role in informing that discussion. And I don't think skirt over pants has to be the answer - perhaps the (sometimes reviled here) skort is the ideal transitional garment. With the shorts portion reassuring anxious men that it's just another form of shorts, with a decorative flap (or whatever construction - could be a full skirt - so long as it retains a pair of shorts).
Barleymower
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by Barleymower »

Coder, I don't think this is bunk at all. In fact it has accured to me (in a manner of speaking). The wearing of skirts over trousers allows the wearer to say 'look I am wearing trousers, the skirt over the top is just a fashion thing'. No need to worry, nothing to see here. Then once the skirt over trousers is esstablished, take off the trousers. Bingo.
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denimini
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by denimini »

I think you are drawing a long bow with that argument for a skirt over pants, if that was the case women would have been wearing skirts under their pants when they started wearing pants ............ hmm maybe they did and we wouldn't know.
I certainly support the idea of a man wearing a mini skirt over tight fitting leggings or bike shorts, for decency's sake.

A man wearing a skirt over pants as a personal style would be a positive display of individuality but to do it because it might make skirt wearing more acceptable as a man is quite the opposite. Also much of the joy of skirts is lost; coolness, comfort, freedom of movement and etc.

People should wear what they like. If they are wearing it because of anticipated public scrutiny then they are not wearing what they like.

I agree with Barleymower that it can be an introductory way for a man to wear a skirt ............... just seems a bit sad that someone feels the need to do it and as they will find out later; totally unnecessary.
Anthony, a denim miniskirt wearer in Outback Australia
Coder
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by Coder »

denimini wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:32 pm I think you are drawing a long bow with that argument for a skirt over pants, if that was the case women would have been wearing skirts under their pants when they started wearing pants ............ hmm maybe they did and we wouldn't know.
I was going to mention culottes in my original post - they had the appearance of a skirt, but were pants.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culottes# ... _for_women
denimini wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:32 pm A man wearing a skirt over pants as a personal style would be a positive display of individuality but to do it because it might make skirt wearing more acceptable as a man is quite the opposite. Also much of the joy of skirts is lost; coolness, comfort, freedom of movement and etc.
Yeah - I just think there is a bigger leap to go from pants->skirt in one fell swoop, and sort of what the author was hinting at in terms of clothing history.
denimini wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:32 pm People should wear what they like. If they are wearing it because of anticipated public scrutiny then they are not wearing what they like.
For sure!
denimini wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:32 pm I agree with Barleymower that it can be an introductory way for a man to wear a skirt ............... just seems a bit sad that someone feels the need to do it and as they will find out later; totally unnecessary.
I too think it's unnecessary/sad.

Another reason I brought this up - earlier in the week I saw a designer outfit (might have been in one of the news articles I posted) that had a plaid skirt with matching pants. The look... admittedly was stupid. But, at some level I thought it looked more "high fashion" vs personal style. What I mean by that... a skirt over pants is 1) unconventional and 2) purely ornamental. It doesn't convey a sense of gender bending or "identity" or any such stuff - it's not a look women typically wear. And for that, I think it would be easy for a guy to go to a fancy party with skirt over, and be "on trend".
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KiltedBigWave
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by KiltedBigWave »

Barleymower wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:11 pm Coder, I don't think this is bunk at all. In fact it has accured to me (in a manner of speaking). The wearing of skirts over trousers allows the wearer to say 'look I am wearing trousers, the skirt over the top is just a fashion thing'. No need to worry, nothing to see here. Then once the skirt over trousers is esstablished, take off the trousers. Bingo.
While I do not like the skirt over trouser look, I agree with your way of thinking. I wear leggings under my kilts and skirts in cooler weather and often wonder if it may look the same way.
"Look at Scottish guys wearing kilts - you could look at them and laugh, but the way they carry themselves, how can you? You can wear some of the weirdest things and be cool. If you believe in it, that's what makes it cool."
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r.m.anderson
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by r.m.anderson »

Skirts over pants - BLASPHEMY SACRILEGE especially with kilts - skirts maybe a whole nother fashion freekin style.
Granted when the weather is foul protecting the skin is imperative if one wants to prevent frost bite pealing skin off in layers
Wearing coordinated leg wear ph tights leggings OK but certainly not thermal undergear.
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Uncle Al
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by Uncle Al »

People need to broaden their perspectives and viewpoints.

Skirt-Over-Pants, can describe what protective rain gear has been worn when driving horse
drawn carriages. Many started out as a "Rain Apron" but some were made into "Rain Skirts".

Examples:
Image

or
Image

or
Image

Granted, this is not normal attire in today's world but, historically, Equestrians and stage coach
drivers wore some type of protective weather gear during rain and/or cold weather events.

Could be the "designers" are trying to bring back this concept to the general public,
stating that it's OK for men to wear skirts. Personally, I go without long pants under
my skirts/kilts (maybe tights or leggings for warmth).

Still, there was(and is) a practical reason for skirts over pants.

Uncle Al
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Grand Musician of the Grand Lodge, I.O.O.F. of Texas 2008-2009, 2015-2016,
2018-202 ? (and the beat goes on ;) )
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I respond-The why is F.T.H.O.I. (For The H--- Of It)
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by Barleymower »

KiltedBigWave wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 3:30 pm
Barleymower wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:11 pm Coder, I don't think this is bunk at all. In fact it has accured to me (in a manner of speaking). The wearing of skirts over trousers allows the wearer to say 'look I am wearing trousers, the skirt over the top is just a fashion thing'. No need to worry, nothing to see here. Then once the skirt over trousers is esstablished, take off the trousers. Bingo.
While I do not like the skirt over trouser look, I agree with your way of thinking. I wear leggings under my kilts and skirts in cooler weather and often wonder if it may look the same way.
Do I like the trouser / skirt combo? No.
I was on the Hammersmith and City line with my daughter wearing a pleated grey skirt with a white shirt and v neck jumper when my daughter saw a young guy with a pair of ripped jeans and skirt over the top and a leather jacket. My daughter said he looked really cool. She knows better than I do what's cool and what girls like. I'm not going to knock anything that works.
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by Coder »

Barleymower wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2023 5:14 pm She knows better than I do what's cool and what girls like. I'm not going to knock anything that works.
If done right, I'm sure there is a way to style them. I still think it's a "safer" approach to wearing one - it does not give off vibes of "this guy wants to be a woman" or "this guy wants to wear women's clothes". It's more of a punk/goth/emo/etc... kind of look. Again, bucking the trends without diverging too far. Again, not the look for me but reading that portion of the book, really made me think about this more deeply.
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Myopic Bookworm
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by Myopic Bookworm »

The long-haired boy in the choir (who wanted to wear a skirt for dress-up day at school) came to Friday's rehearsal wearing his sister's denim skirt over a pair of thick leggings. I'm sure he felt more comfortable that way. He created a certain amount of discussion (mainly from the slightly older girls), but this was focused not on the skirt, but the fact that he combined a blue denim skirt with a navy hoodie and black/grey leggings. The message was apparently: boy in skirt, yeah fine, but do try and get your colour scheme right!

I was just pleased to be able to wheel out the classic line "nice skirt, bro"! (I was in a brown corduroy kilt myself, over black tights.)

I think, like a lot of males, he does not want either to display his legs, or to wear tights. The obvious answer is either leggings or skinny jeans.
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by SkirtsDad »

If people here aren't prepared to accept skirts over trousers then why do they expect socierty to accept men wearing skirts? Personally I really am not bothered what someone wants to wear. Their body, their choice. Just don't try to stop me wearing what I want to wear. I have worn all sorts... a short denim skirt over orange stretch jeans, a dog collar and chain fashioned as a tie. An ice skating dress to the pub. I could go on lol
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timemeddler
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by timemeddler »

maybe as an extra layer in cold weather, or if was made out of water retardant material, it could be useful in a wrap format for our wet weather.
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by FLbreezy »

How about skirt over shorts? :D I'll admit I don't like the skirt-over-pants options personally, but I've been finding myself wearing my ClHu utility skirt lately which is a rather utilitarian nylon skirt with sown in heavy sweatpants that are shorts length, they just peek out a bit. They're nice when the weathers cool but not cold and I'm doing stuff outside. I don't find jeans comfortable and I don't like just wearing sweatpants (there's a reason women talk about "grey sweatpants season" :oops: ) and these were a nice compromise. A bit expensive for what they are but I got them on a good discount last year. It wouldn't be difficult to recreate independently.
flb-clhu.jpg
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r.m.anderson
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by r.m.anderson »

FLbreezy wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 2:19 pm How about skirt over shorts? :D I'll admit I don't like the skirt-over-pants options personally, but I've been finding myself wearing my ClHu utility skirt lately which is a rather utilitarian nylon skirt with sown in heavy sweatpants that are shorts length, they just peek out a bit. They're nice when the weathers cool but not cold and I'm doing stuff outside. I don't find jeans comfortable and I don't like just wearing sweatpants (there's a reason women talk about "grey sweatpants season" :oops: ) and these were a nice compromise. A bit expensive for what they are but I got them on a good discount last year. It wouldn't be difficult to recreate independently.

flb-clhu.jpg

Making what is called a skort just with longer pant length - - - ?
"YES SKIRTING MATTERS"!
"Kilt-On" -or- as the case may be "Skirt-On" !
WHY ?
Isn't wearing a kilt enough?
Well a skirt will do in a pinch!
Make mine short and don't you dare think of pinching there !
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Re: Skirt over pants

Post by FLbreezy »

r.m.anderson wrote: Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:57 pm
Making what is called a skort just with longer pant length - - - ?
Basically.
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