Skirts and names

[Sepchugang]

I appreciate that this site is for men who simply enjoy wearing skirts and is not for cross-dressers and trans people who have other sites they can join, so I understand and support rule 5 "No female screen names (unless you are a woman). We are committed to gender honesty." - but I wonder if we are guilty of showing the same insensitivity (and indeed hypocrisy) that many wives/girlfriends show to our skirt wearing?

Skirts and pants (trousers) can essentially be made from the same piece of cloth. If the product contains two tubes then contemporary Western society is happy for it to be worn by men and women but if it only contains only one tube it is not acceptable for it to be worn by men - with a few recognised exceptions e.g. Scottish kilts and Greek soldiers etc. In quite a few other societies it is completely acceptable and in the case of Bhutan it is even mandatory for men working for the government and in public service to wear a gho. A name is made up of a combination of letters and Western society accepts one combination of these letters as a female name and another combination as a male name. Like wearing a skirt, there is no actual direct link between a name and its gender it is just what society accepts or assigns. A man who wants to wear a skirt is no more a woman than a man who wears trousers. A man who chooses to be called by a name usually accepted as a female name is no more a woman than a man who goes by a "man's" name. Often there is confusion about how the name is seen anyway. Some names sound the same but are spelt differently, e.g. Jo and Joe, Leslie and Lesley, etc., others have the same spelling but are pronounced differently. We are an international group - one of my male friends is from Luxembourg and has the name Jean-Marie. In the UK both Jean and Marie are seen as female names whereas in Luxembourg Jean-Marie is very much a male name. If Jean-Marie wants to become a member would he fall foul of rule 5? I've reflected on this as a new member (Marcia) has just joined and in the most gentle of ways has been reminded that they need to change their screen name as it is currently associated with females - is that really so different to a new member who has joined who enjoys wearing skirts which is also currently associated with females? I'm not advocating changing rule 5. I just think it is worth reflecting on it.

[shadowfax]

I appreciate that this site is for men who simply enjoy wearing skirts and is not for cross-dressers and trans people who have other sites they can join, so I understand and support rule 5 "No female screen names (unless you are a woman). We are committed to gender honesty." - but I wonder if we are guilty of showing the same insensitivity (and indeed hypocrisy) that many wives/girlfriends show to our skirt wearing?

Skirts and pants (trousers) can essentially be made from the same piece of cloth. If the product contains two tubes then contemporary Western society is happy for it to be worn by men and women but if it only contains only one tube it is not acceptable for it to be worn by men - with a few recognised exceptions e.g. Scottish kilts and Greek soldiers etc. In quite a few other societies it is completely acceptable and in the case of Bhutan it is even mandatory for men working for the government and in public service to wear a gho. A name is made up of a combination of letters and Western society accepts one combination of these letters as a female name and another combination as a male name. Like wearing a skirt, there is no actual direct link between a name and its gender it is just what society accepts or assigns. A man who wants to wear a skirt is no more a woman than a man who wears trousers. A man who chooses to be called by a name usually accepted as a female name is no more a woman than a man who goes by a "man's" name. Often there is confusion about how the name is seen anyway. Some names sound the same but are spelt differently, e.g. Jo and Joe, Leslie and Lesley, etc., others have the same spelling but are pronounced differently. We are an international group - one of my male friends is from Luxembourg and has the name Jean-Marie. In the UK both Jean and Marie are seen as female names whereas in Luxembourg Jean-Marie is very much a male name. If Jean-Marie wants to become a member would he fall foul of rule 5? I've reflected on this as a new member (Marcia) has just joined and in the most gentle of ways has been reminded that they need to change their screen name as it is currently associated with females - is that really so different to a new member who has joined who enjoys wearing skirts which is also currently associated with females? I'm not advocating changing rule 5. I just think it is worth reflecting on it.

IMHO When choosing a screen name, one also needs to take account of rule 7.

"7. Please, posts need to be in English. We unfortunately do not have the resources to deal with non-English language posts. There are a variety of skirted men's on-line communities in other languages."

BTW The rules referenced above can be found in the post, Introduction and Summary of the Rules.

[Layne]

Lots of things these days seem to show my age. When did we collectively decide that it’s a must, that we all be sensitive? When did we collectively decide that - “ I know you have a group that I’m not a part of - but in the name of sensitivity, you should change the rules so that I’m included”? Why must everything now include everyone?

[crfriend]

The "rule" (more of a guideline, really) is in place to keep actors and "female impersonators" from overrunning the place. We do support the notion of Gender Honesty -- and note that we are quite tolerant of those who have differing opinions on the matter. Thus the use of given names and proper pronouns is a matter of simple openness and honesty, not anything hard-and-fast or otherwise inflexible. We're also very well aware that names from different languages can sound like something else in English and adjust well to that.

[rode_kater]

For better or for worse this is an English forum, and thus Rule 5 should actually be interpreted as "No screen names that could be interpreted by native English-speaking people as being usually used for females". I do note it does say gender honesty, so it's ok for people who are actually trans. That leaves the people in the middle. Name rules on international forums can get tricky, Fanny is a normal name here for example. But then so is Dick in English.

My solution is to just pick a screen name totally unrelated (it translates to "red tomcat"). Actually, I guess I fall foul of Rule 7 because my screen name isn't English. Oops. No complaints so far though.

Lots of things these days seem to show my age. When did we collectively decide that it’s a must, that we all be sensitive? When did we collectively decide that - “ I know you have a group that I’m not a part of - but in the name of sensitivity, you should change the rules so that I’m included”? Why must everything now include everyone?

Any time a group gets larger you're going to get people reflecting on the existing rules. That doesn't mean they need to change, but to pretend they're engraved on tablets and can't be changed is also wrong. It's got nothing to do with sensitivity either. A group is defined by who it excludes, that's all.

[Fred in Skirts]

Personally I don't care what you call your self. After all it means nothing at all, a name is something we use to identify who we are! If I wanted to call myself "Margret James Whodunit" then that's what I go by. It does not hurt you or anyone else now does it?

As far as the including of everyone in everything we do is based upon the sore losers who did not get a prize for finishing last and claimed that it was unfair. So then we had to appease them by having trophy's for participation just so that they would not feel bad for not winning the 1st prize. My thoughts on this is that it is BULL$H!T.

When I was a child not winning meant I needed to work harder to try to win the next time, or I had to accept that I was not able to compete with the more athletic or smarter people.
Not sit down and cry about it being unfair.
Just my $.02

[Myopic Bookworm]

What does Gender Honesty look like if you identify as non-binary? To demand Biological Sex Honesty would seem ridiculous.

I tend to choose gender-neutral screen names on many internet forums. As a result, I have occasionally been called "Ms Bookworm", which doesn't bother me.

[TheSkirtedMan]

IMHO a Screen Name is just that. So long as it is not offensive let it be. The content of replies will let you know what that member is, ethos and beliefs. The adjudicaters can close the account if that person brings the forum into disrepute by their posts or pushes expectations upon others within the forum. Also members on this forum are very capable of ostracising a member, latterly, in Introductions, Rebecca Kelly posted on 28th September, has only had 3 replies and all made it clear what Rebecca was after is not on this forum. All went quiet.

I really have no issue with a Screen Name being a woman's or even sounding as a woman's Name eg Jean Marie from Luxembourg. Its the behaviour and replies with expectations placed upon other forum members to change the purpose of this forum about MIS should be the concern.

MIS on this forum, and this forum is about MIS, will opt for a suitable Screen Name and future genuine MIS will do the same. In the interest of not appearing as hypocritical as some are towards MIS as the opening post states, then a Screen Name should be open.