NYT article from 1984

[photoguy207]

I did some searching here before posting

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/27/styl ... nd-no.html

[Coder]

I think this quote says it all:

The show prompted the Times's fashion critic, Bernadine Morris, to pose a question. ''If it's all right for women to wear fully-tailored clothing, why isn't it all right for men to wear skirts?'' said Mrs. Morris at the St. Laurent show. She was wearing a man-tailored Calvin Klein suit, and she answered her own question, more or less: ''Because women are not trying to pass as men. Whereas many times men wearing skirts are trying to pass as women. The answer is somewhere in there.'' But Jean-Paul Gaultier did not agree. ''Wearing a skirt doesn't mean you're not masculine,'' explained Mr. Gaultier. ''Masculinity doesn't come from clothes. It comes from something inside you. Men and women can wear the same clothes and still be men and women. It's fun.''

We cannot deny this doesn’t happen, nor can we deny that it isn’t the predominant mode that “society” associates with men wearing clothes from the other aisle. I truly believe this is because men are so boxed in with what they are “allowed” to wear. I saw a movie from 1913, and the men in that movie were almost indistinguishable from men dressed in suits today. The women? A vast gulf of style between then and now.

But anyhow - I wonder if it’s because we are so boxed in, that the only acceptable avenue is for us to lose our masculinity and “become” a woman because women have the freedom to wear what they wear.

That’s just a theory - I’m not totally sold on the idea - but the only way of changing this attitude is to go out there, skirted or otherwise, owning the look, and not being the stereotype.

[JeffB1959]

Do women lose their femininity when they’re seen in flannel shirts, baggy jeans and Timberlands? Of course not! Do I lose my masculinity when I’m out and about in a dress and heels? Of course not! These foolishly rigid mindsets regarding gender being joined at the hip to clothing is patently ridiculous! Always have been, always will be.

[crfriend]

I think this quote says it all:

The show prompted the Times's fashion critic, Bernadine Morris, to pose a question. ''If it's all right for women to wear fully-tailored clothing, why isn't it all right for men to wear skirts?'' said Mrs. Morris at the St. Laurent show. She was wearing a man-tailored Calvin Klein suit, and she answered her own question, more or less: ''Because women are not trying to pass as men. Whereas many times men wearing skirts are trying to pass as women. The answer is somewhere in there.'' But Jean-Paul Gaultier did not agree. ''Wearing a skirt doesn't mean you're not masculine,'' explained Mr. Gaultier. ''Masculinity doesn't come from clothes. It comes from something inside you. Men and women can wear the same clothes and still be men and women. It's fun.''

SSDD, but in this case the second "D" stands for Decade.

Obsolete misandrist thinking.

[Uncle Al]

Spot ON JeffB1959, Spot On

I'ld put that on a bumper sticker but your comment would cover the entire back of my Suburban.

Maybe a rolling billboard

Uncle Al

[Coder]

Obsolete misandrist thinking.

It is... but a lot of the alternative fashion forums (mostly talking about Reddit) on the net tends to have guys who get all decked out - dressed a certain way. Why is that? Are they the minority? Do they think they have to imitate women completely in both clothes and persona? I gotta think that a lot of CD'ing is due to self-inflicted peer pressure, and the mindset that Bernadine has. I'm not saying she is right - but it's like we (men) are incapable of looking at it from Gaultier's perspective.

[STEVIE]

I gotta think that a lot of CD'ing is due to self-inflicted peer pressure, and the mindset that Bernadine has. I'm not saying she is right - but it's like we (men) are incapable of looking at it from Gaultier's perspective.

Hi Coder,
See my comments on this, in the "Drone Zone".
Absolutely agree about the CD element but the pressure comes from all sections of society which is not self-inflicted.
It was certainly what I had to break through to reach where I am today.
This was published forty years ago and we are still having the same discussions.
Progress, seriously?
Steve.

[Coder]

This was published forty years ago and we are still having the same discussions.
Progress, seriously?

I do think there has been progress - but it is subtle and doesn't feel like it has had any meaningful impact on our lives. Then again, I look back at a mere 7 years ago, and it's crazy how far things have been pushed - some in our* favor, some against. While where I work has always been very tolerant of people wearing what they want... it never felt like it was possible for me. Granted, I've done a lot of work both here (reading/writing) and other places to further my own courage - so some of my current thinking may be warped to a reality I crafted around myself. But I like to think that going out there, as a guy, wearing a skirt and whatever else... that the conversation we could have or perhaps the "activism" that such clothing might portray - is one of equality, freedom, and IDGAF attitude.


*erm, in the sense that there should be greater fashion freedom for men - there are cracks in the door - but will they propagate? Who knows.

[Uncle Al]

<snip> I've done a lot of work both here (reading/writing) and other places to further my own courage <snip>

IMHO I think/feel that you meant knowledge instead of courage.
Reason: With knowledge comes 'courage' (confidence).
The more people(men AND women) know and understand, the better it is for everyone.

Just mu $.02 worth

Uncle Al