The Drone Zone

[STEVIE]

I have taken the liberty of purloining the title to counteract drift.
The very idea of the "drone" effect may go a long way to explaining the skewed age range of cafe membership.
When a young or younger man is seeking romantic company, even today, the sad fact is that he will not likely achieve that end by wearing a skirt.
In that respect, I don't believe much has changed since my "hunting" days 50 years or so ago.
In my own case, I admit that my attitude to skirting in public really came when I finally acknowledged those days were gone.
I have a feeling that if we are honest to ourselves and each other, I am not alone either.
What is more for even the most devoted and accepting couples among us, how many "tied the knot" AFTER the clothing preferences were disclosed or became evident?
Interestingly, I have had several girls state that they'd accept a skirted beau.
However, I doubt those words will ever likely be fully tested in the human jungle.
Steve.

[crfriend]

Interestingly, I have had several girls state that they'd accept a skirted beau.
However, I doubt those words will ever likely be fully tested in the human jungle.

I've had several say that as well, but I suspect that practise will win over theory every time in the wild. They're OK with the notion but not on their man.

[denimini]

I think it is true that the older we get the less inhibited we are. I attribute it to increasing wisdom but others may suspect increasing dementure ......... but I don't care.

[Barleymower]

The drone effect comes I think from men not knowing where they belong or what it means to be a man. The band width in which men exist is being dictated by what is being taken over by the opposite sex. It is becoming so narrow that men don't have much left and are becoming ever more drone like.
The question is why are men not reclaiming some space? The article below explains how men define themselves and gives us a better understanding of men as a group.
Read on..
BTW keep an open mind and consider how the research outcomes affect not only gay men but other mens groups that transgress female boundaries. Who could that be?


"Before the feminist revolution in the late 1960s, men largely built their masculinity on traits that opposed those assigned to women. Since then, society has been moving more and more towards gender equality, and men can no longer rely on this anti-feminine norm. What are the effects of this shift on masculinity affirmation? Researchers at the University of Geneva (UNIGE), Switzerland, have revealed that some men assert their manhood by stressing their heterosexuality, in order to compensate for the feminisation of men. This move marks a clear rejection of homosexuality, seen as the personification of the feminine man. The university of Geneve results, published in the journal Sex Roles, reflect the difficulties Western societies have in granting homosexuals the same rights as heterosexuals, with some men leaning on homophobia to help them find their place in an increasingly egalitarian society.

Prior to May 1968, the social norms that male identity was built on were founded primarily on the male-female opposition. A woman, for example, had to be sensitive and attentive, and was obliged to prioritise the family at the expense of her career. A man, on the other hand, had to be self-assured, independent and strong - and, above all, he had to be not feminine. The masculinity constructed on this opposition was a more fragile concept than femininity: a man was meant to prove his manliness to society by regularly acting in a way that showed he was not a woman.

Masculine construction: in need of guidance:
Western society has been moving in the direction of greater gender equality since the feminist revolution. As well as focusing on their careers, women can now be self-sufficient and strong. Meanwhile, men are allowed to show their emotions and take care of their families. The anti-feminine norm can no longer serve as a model for constructing male identity, and it is said that there is a "crisis of masculinity". What are the implications on what it means to be a man today?

A team led by Juan M. Falomir, Professor in the Psychology Section in UNIGE's Faculty of Psychology and Educational Sciences (FPSE), has recently investigated the relationship between the decline of the anti-feminine norm and homophobia. "The homosexual stereotype includes the idea of someone who transgresses gender identity by embodying femininity in a man," says the professor. "We wondered whether the feminisation of men had a direct impact on the decrease or rise of homophobia."

Anti-femininity and heterosexuality: an interconnected system:
The UNIGE psychologists used a questionnaire to test the effects of the demise of the anti-femininity norm. It included items measuring agreement with the key features of masculinity: avoiding femininity, restricting emotions, self-confidence, aggression, domination, attraction to sexual activity and homophobia. Three groups of heterosexual men then had to state whether they agreed or disagreed with 50 or so items related to these norms. "The first group was a control group, meaning its members had to complete the questionnaire without any prior information. With the second group, we highlighted the masculinity and anti-femininity of men in society today through the presentation of various studies before filling in the questionnaire. Conversely, we told the third group that men today had never been so feminine," explains professor Falomir. In a second study, the researchers only retained the last two groups, with participants answering another questionnaire that measured their attitudes towards homosexuals (their rights, sense of morality, the emotions they feel and their behaviour) and the affirmation of their own heterosexuality. Contrary to all expectations, the results indicated in overall terms that homophobia and the reaffirmation of heterosexuality were much stronger for the last group - where men were presented as being increasingly feminine - than for the other groups.

"It's an interconnected system", explains professor Falomir. "In decreasing the significance of the anti-femininity norm, men compensate by emphasising the importance of the heterosexuality norm. Homophobia is the alternative way of asserting their masculinity." As the UNIGE psychologists continued their study, they noted that the rise in homophobia is not caused directly by a desire to reassert the male-female opposition (the gender dichotomy). Femininity is no longer considered to be a characteristic that is unique to women since men are becoming more sensitive and emotional. But this acceptance of the feminisation of men seems to be happening at the expense of homosexuals, because masculinity is now affirmed more by heterosexuality. We should note, however, that this increase in homophobia is found mainly among more "traditional" men. So-called "modern" men, by contrast, react better to the feminisation of men and have a better perception of homosexuals.

The feminisation of society is delaying the acceptance of gay rights:
These results reflect the fact that our Western societies, which are establishing gender equality as a fundamental principle, are still reluctant when it comes to the rights of homosexuals. "The more we even up the genders, the more difficult it becomes for 'traditional men' to manage this equality and continue to construct their masculinity. As they can't differentiate themselves from women any more, they see homophobia as a way of restoring their manhood," concludes professor Falomir."

[Freedomforall]

The feminisation of society is delaying the acceptance of gay rights:
These results reflect the fact that our Western societies, which are establishing gender equality as a fundamental principle, are still reluctant when it comes to the rights of homosexuals. "The more we even up the genders, the more difficult it becomes for 'traditional men' to manage this equality and continue to construct their masculinity. As they can't differentiate themselves from women any more, they see homophobia as a way of restoring their manhood," concludes professor Falomir."

This is the fuse on the dynamite fueled by media and government just like pawns in a Chess game.

[Grok]

When I was a boy I was resigned to a Trousers Tyranny for the rest of my life.

In young adulthood I had little luck with the ladies. Looking back, I would say that I was clumsy, indeed incompetent, in wooing them.

When I was 46 years old, I finally gave up on women. I figured that I was getting too old to start raising a new family (and there were no prospects at the time).

After that.... One day I noticed a man wearing a skirt like garment, which I later realized was a Utilikilt.

I can't say if I would have experimented if I had become involved with a woman. I like to think that I would have been bold, but maybe not.

[Barleymower]

When I was a boy I was resigned to a Trousers Tyranny for the rest of my life.

In young adulthood I had little luck with the ladies. Looking back, I would say that I was clumsy, indeed incompetent, in wooing them.

When I was 46 years old, I finally gave up on women. I figured that I was getting too old to start raising a new family (and there were no prospects at the time).

After that.... One day I noticed a man wearing a skirt like garment, which I later realized was a Utilikilt.

I can't say if I would have experimented if I had become involved with a woman. I like to think that I would have been bold, but maybe not.

I'm sad to hear that Grok, it could have been any one of us. Makes me realise how fortunate I am.

[Faldaguy]

I have taken the liberty of purloining the title to counteract drift.
The very idea of the "drone" effect may go a long way to explaining the skewed age range of cafe membership.
When a young or younger man is seeking romantic company, even today, the sad fact is that he will not likely achieve that end by wearing a skirt.
In that respect, I don't believe much has changed since my "hunting" days 50 years or so ago.
In my own case, I admit that my attitude to skirting in public really came when I finally acknowledged those days were gone.
I have a feeling that if we are honest to ourselves and each other, I am not alone either.
What is more for even the most devoted and accepting couples among us, how many "tied the knot" AFTER the clothing preferences were disclosed or became evident?
Interestingly, I have had several girls state that they'd accept a skirted beau.
However, I doubt those words will ever likely be fully tested in the human jungle.
Steve.

With emphasis: Interestingly, I have had several girls state that they'd accept a skirted beau.
However, I doubt those words will ever likely be fully tested in the human jungle.


Sadly Steve, I think you are correct. In reading the cafe comments quite a few of us have had women compliment our attire; and women tell us they would like to see more men; sometimes even their man, in a skirt. A few claim they would have no reservations in dating skirted men, but when it comes to proof of the pudding, I fear it falls flat. Even those of us fortunate enough to have supportive spouses, as you surmise, they mostly came before our skirts -- and had the skirts come first, they may not have joined the train.

I don't think they are being dishonest in expressing their theoretical agreement with skirts not being a barrier to romance, but somewhere in the psyche that barrier exists. It would be nice to be proven wrong, but I suspect conformity to convention is equally as strong in women as it is in men.

[Barleymower]

The feminisation of society is delaying the acceptance of gay rights:
These results reflect the fact that our Western societies, which are establishing gender equality as a fundamental principle, are still reluctant when it comes to the rights of homosexuals. "The more we even up the genders, the more difficult it becomes for 'traditional men' to manage this equality and continue to construct their masculinity. As they can't differentiate themselves from women any more, they see homophobia as a way of restoring their manhood," concludes professor Falomir."

This is the fuse on the dynamite fueled by media and government just like pawns in a Chess game.

Can men get beyond building their masculinity on the back of 'not gay'? Why do men have to assert / prove their masculinity while women can just be?

[Grok]

Or, possibly, women expect a higher level of conformity for men than themselves.

If the vanguard tends to be older men, this may reflect our position if life

Continuing one's bloodline...older men may have already finished raising a family, so no longer need to attract a mate. (Or like me, have gotten too old to try).

An older man may be well established in a career, or built up a business, or has perhaps retired.

If an older man has achieved crucial goals, he may feel less need to conform, or to appear to conform.

An older man may feel less constrained than his younger self, but is losing the one advantage he had in youth-time. It is getting to the point of now or never.

[Grok]

Women can just be because they are the gatekeepers of sex. Or, to put it another way, women are the gatekeepers of reproduction. To continue his bloodline, a man must expect to jump through some hoops; the first hoop being an appearance of traditional masculinity.

[STEVIE]

Women can just be because they are the gatekeepers of sex. Or, to put it another way, women are the gatekeepers of reproduction. To continue his bloodline, a man must expect to jump through some hoops; the first hoop being an appearance of traditional masculinity.

Good point Grok, "maintaing an appearance " is pretty much what I did and it wasn't healthy in the least.
The one thing I will stress is that I knew all about my preference for skirts long before the concept of maintaining a bloodline, marriage or dating, for that matter.
What's more my wife was also forewarned but has never truly accepted.
Am I really the only member in this situation?
Steve.

[Freedomforall]

Can men get beyond building their masculinity on the back of 'not gay'? Why do men have to assert / prove their masculinity while women can just be?

Good question. It does not seem to have always been this way. We know they fought to wear pants and some were arrested for it. That seems to have been the beginning of their freedom. It seems however, that the middle of the plot is missing.

[Barleymower]

Women can just be because they are the gatekeepers of sex. Or, to put it another way, women are the gatekeepers of reproduction. To continue his bloodline, a man must expect to jump through some hoops; the first hoop being an appearance of traditional masculinity.

Good point Grok, "maintaing an appearance " is pretty much what I did and it wasn't healthy in the least.
The one thing I will stress is that I knew all about my preference for skirts long before the concept of maintaining a bloodline, marriage or dating, for that matter.
What's more my wife was also forewarned but has never truly accepted.
Am I really the only member in this situation?
Steve.

There definitely are men here who absolutely are in the same situation as you or very similar. I've yet to find out why there's so little acceptance of such a simple thing. I hear a lot brush off reasons but the truth is kept under wraps.

Can men get beyond building their masculinity on the back of 'not gay'? Why do men have to assert / prove their masculinity while women can just be?

Good question. It does not seem to have always been this way. We know they fought to wear pants and some were arrested for it. That seems to have been the beginning of their freedom. It seems however, that the middle of the plot is missing.

Or where we are all going. This isn't a quest for equality anymore it's a power struggle.

[STEVIE]

This isn't a quest for equality anymore it's a power struggle.

That isn't how I actually see it.
I know that there is plenty evidence that men have the power to dress as they choose, there are even examples right here in the cafe.
The struggle is not about being invited to the party, it is about being asked to dance.
This just happens to be the best metaphor for the difference between being tolerated and actually gaining acceptance.
I guess I am just bored with being a bloody wallflower!
It is of no consolation to be fully aware that I am not alone in this either.
The saddest fact is that our "tolerant" society is probably no more accepting of men in skirts than it was sixty years ago.
Finally, the happy partner tales reported here are the exception which proves the more normal experience of men in skirts.
Since no one has reported that their partner had prior knowledge and has still accepted I have to conclude my contention in this respect.
Mine did and she still never really accepted.
Steve.