Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Clippings from news sources involving fashion freedom and other gender equality issues.
jamie001
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Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by jamie001 »

I just watched a localTV news program about Target Department Stores here in the USA being forced to remove a women's bathing suit from its stores.The issue with the bathing suit was that it had some type of provision to support "tucking" to accommodate biological males that choose to wear it. Anti-LGBTQ hate organizations and Conservative Republicans verbally threatened and physically assaulted Target Store employees in different parts of America. The Target CEO then caved to the hate groups and removed the item along with other pro-LGBTQ items. California Governor Gavin Newsome longtime supporter of LGBTQ rights called-out the Target CEO stating that he should be ashamed of his action.

In America, Conservative Republican groups are supporting anti-LGBT hate groups. Soon there will be laws against crossdressing, gender nonconforming, and selling feminine clothing that can be worn by men. We are at war!!
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by Coder »

I'm not too worried about this - it feels like the satanic panic that happened over Dungeon's and Dragons in the 1980's. Social media amplifies the anger. There was a lite version of this that happened recently with Anthropologie when they featured a man in dresses on their Instagram feed. No products were pulled, but supposedly workers were chastised by their customers.

Everyone, everyone has lost their collective mind. We take all of this stuff WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. The companies should just tell people: shop elsewhere if you don't like it.

Not covered by what you wrote - some of the thought leaders on the right were spreading some misinformation about the products which I think contributed to Target's reaction - I don't think Target wanted to be associated with what they were alleging, so they reacted without trying to push back. My guess is in a week or two this will all be forgotten, especially as the presidential primaries ramp up and the political sphere starts to suck up everyone's attention. News media needs people to get agitated, and this stuff is only good for a few news cycles.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by moonshadow »

The spirit always finds a way.

Throughout the ages tyrants have tried and tried to eliminate ideas, they have failed every single time.

Do not despair, find a crack in the pavement and grow anyway.
plant in crack.JPG
The above photo I took on the steps leading up to the Vermont State Capital.

The spirit always finds a way.
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phathack
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

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jamie001 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 11:31 pm I just watched a localTV news program about Target Department Stores here in the USA being forced to remove a women's bathing suit from its stores.The issue with the bathing suit was that it had some type of provision to support "tucking" to accommodate biological males that choose to wear it.
The story I've seen said the bathing suit was for small pre-teen children, not adult women.
If it had been for Adult Women no one would care.

People get upset when you try and sexualize young children.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by moonshadow »

phathack wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 4:09 am
jamie001 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 11:31 pm I just watched a localTV news program about Target Department Stores here in the USA being forced to remove a women's bathing suit from its stores.The issue with the bathing suit was that it had some type of provision to support "tucking" to accommodate biological males that choose to wear it.
The story I've seen said the bathing suit was for small pre-teen children, not adult women.
If it had been for Adult Women no one would care.

People get upset when you try and sexualize young children.
I think it's more to it than that...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/25/business ... index.html
Hurting brands’ sales and reputations was the stated goal of the campaign: “The goal is to make ‘pride’ toxic for brands,” said right-wing commentator Matt Walsh on Twitter. “If they decide to shove this garbage in our face, they should know that they’ll pay a price. It won’t be worth whatever they think they’ll gain.”
I think a threshold has been crossed... Far right wing extremist are finally gaining enough traction to really shove anything LGBT related underground. Decades of progress is about to be wiped out.

It's not good. Most on this website may think they don't have a dog in this fight, but what's really at stake here is a crack down on freedom of thought.

How much longer before people like us a physically assaulted for simply walking down the street in a skirt simply because there may be children around? This element of society is becoming very embolden. They believe that the majority stands behind them, and they also have a very strong political faction in their corner.

We better conform.... or else...
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jamie001
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by jamie001 »

phathack wrote: Thu May 25, 2023 4:09 am
jamie001 wrote: Wed May 24, 2023 11:31 pm I just watched a localTV news program about Target Department Stores here in the USA being forced to remove a women's bathing suit from its stores.The issue with the bathing suit was that it had some type of provision to support "tucking" to accommodate biological males that choose to wear it.
The story I've seen said the bathing suit was for small pre-teen children, not adult women.
If it had been for Adult Women no one would care.

People get upset when you try and sexualize young children.
Here is an excerpt from the CNN article:

The campaign made other false claims, including that Target was marketing one product for transgender adults to children. Target sold a women’s swimsuit that was described as “tuck friendly” for its ability to conceal male genitalia. The bathing suit was available for adults only, according to screenshots of the items taken when they were available online.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by moonshadow »

So, the "spirit" of the haters is bothersome, the fact that they love to rattle on about living in a "free country", yet when someone does something they don't approve of, they get all up in arms about it. However to be fair, sometimes I think this "right wing cancel culture" is just a pushback on the "left wing cancel culture.

I mean, let's face it, the far left were canceling things long before canceling was "cool".

Nevertheless, it's disheartening to witness people be so ugly towards one another, and I think that's my biggest pet peeve. I was brought up in a world of wholesome conservative God fearing people, people that had morals and standards, and even if they disagreed with something, they would wage their protest with dignity and virtue, NEVER resorting to childish name calling, bulling, and other vulgar tactics.

They were good moral people that lived a life where they could lead by example. You could observe them, how the handled life's problems, how they handled trials, and how they handled their enemies, and you wanted to emulate that. There was virtue, strength, and kindness in their voice. They spoke with authority, and their wisdom was just. I used to hear people in churches, when they would bow their heads, the first thing they would say would be to pray for their enemies, "lead us not into temptation, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us".

I weep for what my species has devolved into. I mourn the loss of every role model and hero I had to guide me, some have died, other's have sold their soul to the beast. There seems to be nobody left worthy of emulation.

Then it occurs to me, it is up to me. As I get older, and my roots run deeper into the ground, I realize that as I move into mid-age, I have to be the role model. I have to be the steady old guy, the hero, the rock. I suspect there are already a few people my junior that look up to me, it is a responsibility I do not take lightly. I can only pray that I live a life worthy of emulation.

There are a few on this website that I look up to. I won't mention names because I don't want anyone to feel left out, there are also a few in the meat world that I still admire. Once such person lives across the street from me. He's not perfect, nobody is, but he's a fine gentleman, and frankly, they don't make them like that anymore.

As far as Target goes, honestly I've got reservations about the overly commercialized "PRIDE" stuff. It seems that it's going the way of holidays like Christmas, whereas it seems to have less and less to do with its true meaning, and more to do with just selling merchandise. PRIDE is a fun month, I enjoy it, I enjoy meeting the people and mingling with like minds, I enjoy the community and the sentiments of love and kindness that surround PRIDE, in many respects, it's like so many other "feel good" holidays.

Maybe corporate America should lay off the PRIDE marketing. Maybe PRIDE should go back to its roots, the sacred journey of a beautiful community of people as they progress towards the future and live their lives in freedom, lest PRIDE be consigned to just another overly commercialized and meaningless cash cow... just like Christmas has become.

You don't get PRIDE from a department store or a soda bottle, PRIDE resides in the heart, and they can't take that away.
-Andrea
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by STEVIE »

moonshadow wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 12:40 am You don't get PRIDE from a department store or a soda bottle, PRIDE resides in the heart, and they can't take that away.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by rode_kater »

moonshadow wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 12:40 am Maybe corporate America should lay off the PRIDE marketing. Maybe PRIDE should go back to its roots, the sacred journey of a beautiful community of people as they progress towards the future and live their lives in freedom, lest PRIDE be consigned to just another overly commercialized and meaningless cash cow... just like Christmas has become.
I don't know about all companies, but where I work it was definitely a bottom up thing. Interally a LGBT working group was spontaneously formed and basically suggested we as a company do this. "Increased diversity is better" is a way to sell it to the bean-counters, but we do it because people think it's the right thing to do. Your suggestion that corporate should stop supporting PRIDE basically amounts to the CEO going to the working group and telling them they can't do anything. Which is a really great way to lose employees. I don't know about your business, but we're not in a position where we can scare away potential employees like that. To be clear, it's not just LGBT employees that would leave, there are plenty of supporters who would take it as a signal to look elsewhere. (From a business perspective, most of the actual money on diversity is going to attracting women to technical jobs, which is a much bigger group than LGBT will ever be.)

So yeah, CxOs are in a difficult position here, between possible PR issues and staff retention/attraction. That's why they get paid the big bucks.

(As an aside, for some reason getting the business to support Pride is easier than switching the gender in your employee profile. Despite the fact that here your employer is not even allowed to ask your gender unless they can demonstrate a legitimate business reason. The joys of a multinational working in conflicting regulatory environments.)
moonshadow wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 12:40 amYou don't get PRIDE from a department store or a soda bottle, PRIDE resides in the heart, and they can't take that away.
Very true, but saying businesses should do nothing ignores the forces at play.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

Post by moonshadow »

I think you're misunderstanding me rode,
rode_kater wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 12:47 pm Your suggestion that corporate should stop supporting PRIDE
I don't mean "stop supporting" pride, I meant the marketing aspect of it. And really, I don't meant stop all together, I just mean maybe pull back a little... it does seem like it's getting a little overly commercialized.

A company can be in full support of LGBT employees without painting rainbows on everything in June. A retailer can be in full support of LGBT customers without causing a ruckus.

My local hillbilly Walmart occasionally puts out pride merchandise, I even purchased the "Now that's what I call pride" vynil album from the local Walmart. I've seen other pride novelties on the shelves and nobody protested, likely because it wasn't plastered everywhere.

The company I work for does have an LGBT outreach, but you wouldn't know it at first glance, it's internal. My job is fixing commercial cooking equipment and refrigerators, not evangelizing for PRIDE. But I can paint my nails and show up for work, I can walk into the office off duty in a skirt, I can represent myself freely without fear of losing my job.

That's worth a lot more to me than whether or not they want to put a rainbow sticker on my van. If that rainbow sticker were to cost us business, I could be out if a job yet.

LGBTQ employees know they won't get fired or harassed for being LGBTQ when they come to work with us, and really, that's all that matters.

By the way... we're hiring. Multiple open positions.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

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moonshadow wrote: Fri May 26, 2023 2:42 pmI don't mean "stop supporting" pride, I meant the marketing aspect of it. And really, I don't meant stop all together, I just mean maybe pull back a little... it does seem like it's getting a little overly commercialized.

A company can be in full support of LGBT employees without painting rainbows on everything in June. A retailer can be in full support of LGBT customers without causing a ruckus.
Usually the best thing that a company can do is be quiet and get out of the way. The problem with "PRIDE" at the moment is that it's removing all the oxygen in the room for everyone but them. It's become a crusade, and crusaders need to vanquish because they are NOT interested in living alongside others. We see this codified into law when it comes to all the legally protected classes of people where they have rights in the US in excess of others.

A number of years ago, a very good friend of mine (sadly, since passed) who was so liberal he made me look like a fascist commented rather presciently, "There will be no peace until all of us -- straight white guys included -- have a place at the table." And right now that class is alone in having no legal protections whatsoever. No wonder lots of people are riled up about things, and, predictably, it's taken the form that it has -- a right-wing backlash.

Now, everybody is welcome at my table, no matter who you are so long as you're affable and capable of getting along -- especially if you understand the concept of "agreeing to disagree". Without that last point we're doomed. In short, I do not care what your kink is, so long as it's not forcefully foisted upon me. "PRIDE", in its modern guise, does precisely that to anyone who is not in that protected class.

We should be fostering union and cooperation, not division and hostility.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

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There is an article about the new attacks on transgender rights on the NYT site titled : How a Campaign Against Transgender Rights Mobilized Conservatives. It is from April. If you can read it, it really explains the current situation and why this is now in the news.

Here is a quote

“ When the Supreme Court declared a constitutional right to same-sex marriage nearly eight years ago, social conservatives were set adrift.

The ruling stripped them of an issue they had used to galvanize rank-and-file supporters and big donors. And it left them searching for a cause that — like opposing gay marriage — would rally the base and raise the movement’s profile on the national stage.

“We knew we needed to find an issue that the candidates were comfortable talking about,” said Terry Schilling, the president of American Principles Project, a social conservative advocacy group. “And we threw everything at the wall.”

What has stuck, somewhat unexpectedly, is the issue of transgender identity, particularly among young people. Today, the effort to restrict transgender rights has supplanted same-sex marriage as an animating issue for social conservatives at a pace that has stunned political leaders across the spectrum. It has reinvigorated a network of conservative groups, increased fund-raising and set the agenda in school boards and state legislatures.”

This isn’t going to be forgotten about soon, it’s a campaign that will last for a long time and roll back advances that have been made these past few years. It’s sad.
Last edited by photoguy207 on Sat May 27, 2023 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

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photoguy207 wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 10:21 am This isn’t going to be forgotten about soon, it’s a campaign that will last for a long time and roll back advances that have been made these past few years. It’s sad.
Well, conservatives can't "memory hole" the entire transgender awakening.

Somehow or another we're going to have to find a way to coexist. And eventually we will. Nobody said freedom was "free", it always cost blood. It's very unfortunate, but nobody said humans were a perfect species either. Blood is what moves the needle. That's just how we are.

But we'll get there.
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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

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Re: Target Forced to Discontinue Products

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moonshadow wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 1:18 pmWell, conservatives can't "memory hole" the entire transgender awakening.
I'm thinking it's time to start using proper terminology and to call a spade a spade [0].

These are "conservatives" in name only; the sort of person who engages in activities like this is more accurately termed a "reactionary". This ugliness got its start in the neo-con movement in the 1970s, initially in opposition to the general public's distaste for the bloody mess that was going on in Vietnam. Also known as "hawks", they set out to rebuild the world in their image, and eventually succeeded in the 1980s which resulted in a massive worldwide lurch to the hard right during the Reagan/Thatcher years -- and continues to cause trouble today.

A true conservative, however, is generally reticent to fiddle with a seemingly successful venture -- unless some knobs really need tweaking, and then they're fine with it so long as the changes are gradual. So the reactionaries are conservatives in name only because most of the other terms are "less than flattering".

Overall, it's just part of the increasing rate of the toxification of society in general, and the reactionaries are leading the charge.


[0] Calling one a shovel merely illustrates stupidity in action, although a spade is technically a very specific type of shovel. This is akin to the infamous and never-ending skirt/kilt argument.
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