Insults

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
Coder
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Re: Insults

Post by Coder »

I don’t think people here are saying negative comments won’t be vocalized - just they shouldn’t be and their value is worth less than a grain of salt. We also shouldn’t accept this as normal behavior in civilized society.

My experience with people like this… they won’t be swayed, and any attempt at kindness will be met with derision. It’s just not worth the effort - be the bigger “man” and walk away. Plus - you are more likely to “convert” someone who gives a positive comment or asks in a nice/curious manner.
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Re: Insults

Post by Coder »

ScotL wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:33 pm But if directly confronted in a way that a response could be warranted, silence could confirm you are gay, non-binary or trans.

If you are either of these three things, great. If you’re not, and you write posts bemoaning why only these three options are considered, how does the fourth option come in to being?
But why does it matter? It’s not the other person’s business as to what flavor of human you are. I get that we want to change perceptions, but that’s unlikely to happen, especially with confrontational people.
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Re: Insults

Post by crfriend »

ScotL wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:33 pmA person sees a man wearing a dress/skirt and thinks what? He’s gay. He’s non-binary. He’s trans. Which of these describe you Carl?
Precisely none of the above.
But if directly confronted in a way that a response could be warranted, silence could confirm you are gay, non-binary or trans.
A correction would be offered, and possibly even accepted. It might even result in a conversation. If the correction was rejected it would say something about the interlocutor.
If you are either of these three things, great. If you’re not, and you write posts bemoaning why only these three options are considered, how does the fourth option come in to being?
Open and frank conversations in this are key. Face it, there is no "box" at the moment for straight guys who wear skirts? Why? Because in common society men haven't worn skirted garments in centuries. At that point it becomes circular-logic: "Why don't men wear skirts? Because men don't wear skirts." Rinse, lather, repeat. That is the hill we have to take, and it's a big steep one -- but it happens one mind at a time.
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jamie001
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Re: Insults

Post by jamie001 »

Why not just reply “if I wanted your opinion, I would ask you”. People need to learn to mind their own business. It is very disrespectful to do otherwise especially to deliver an insult.

On another topic, according to Merriam-Webster, we do have a label that fits: gender nonconforming:

: exhibiting behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits that do not correspond with the traits typically associated with one's sex : having a gender expression that does not conform to gender norms.

This label does not mention gay, bi, trans, non-binary, or anything else but for some reason many members of this group are offended by the label gender nonconforming.

Also on another thought, I have worked in very large diverse companies that had many gay employees and never met a gay man that wears a skirt or dress. They tend to prefer Armani suits and other expensive menswear. I don’t understand how folks equate men in skirts with being gay. Maybe they have never met a gay person.
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Re: Insults

Post by Fred in Skirts »

jamie001 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:25 pm Also on another thought, I have worked in very large diverse companies that had many gay employees and never met a gay man that wears a skirt or dress. They tend to prefer Armani suits and other expensive menswear. I don’t understand how folks equate men in skirts with being gay. Maybe they have never met a gay person.
A lot of the great unwashed couldn't tell a gay man from a hill of beans. They have never met a "gayman" to their knowledge and I have seen many gay folks. I have met a great number of them and have 2 men right now that are friends of mine. They wear trousers and will not be caught dead in a skirt or dress. They laugh at me when people think I am gay because I do wear skirts and dresses.
So don't be fooled by clothing it doesn't mean a thing!!! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Insults

Post by moonshadow »

jamie001 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:25 pm This label does not mention gay, bi, trans, non-binary, or anything else but for some reason many members of this group are offended by the label gender nonconforming.
I assume each of us takes a shower once in a while, when all our clothes come off, are we still "gender nonconforming"?

What is the number one rule of gender identity?

Answer: It's all about how we identify. Skirts, pants, dresses, togas, blouses, tee-shirts, are just articles of thread weaved into fabric and assembled in a certain manner then stitched together. It doesn't have anything to do with the clothes we wear, otherwise a transwoman would cease to be a transwoman just for wearing mens pants.

What if I just wore a bed sheet around me everywhere I went? What would my presumed gender be? What if I wore no clothes at all?

I'm not trying to be a smart Alec, but this is the magic of gender identity, it's a matter of the spirit, of the "heart". Skirts are just a matter of the wardrobe and personal preference.
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Re: Insults

Post by jamie001 »

Moon,

Please do not wear a bedsheet! You will get labeled as a KKK and that is very bad. :D
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Myopic Bookworm
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Re: Insults

Post by Myopic Bookworm »

Why not just reply “if I wanted your opinion, I would ask you”.
One retort I have stored for possible deployment is "Ooh, are you a professional fashion adviser?"
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Re: Insults

Post by moonshadow »

jamie001 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:03 pm Moon,

Please do not wear a bedsheet! You will get labeled as a KKK and that is very bad. :D

touché
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Re: Insults

Post by crfriend »

moonshadow wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:21 pm
jamie001 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 9:03 pm Moon,

Please do not wear a bedsheet! You will get labeled as a KKK and that is very bad. :D
touché
There's a very good blonds joke on this topic involving (obviously) the blonde and a local preacher...
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ScotL
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Re: Insults

Post by ScotL »

Coder wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:40 pm
ScotL wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:33 pm But if directly confronted in a way that a response could be warranted, silence could confirm you are gay, non-binary or trans.

If you are either of these three things, great. If you’re not, and you write posts bemoaning why only these three options are considered, how does the fourth option come in to being?
But why does it matter? It’s not the other person’s business as to what flavor of human you are. I get that we want to change perceptions, but that’s unlikely to happen, especially with confrontational people.
Couldn’t agree with you more that what flavor we are shouldn’t matter but I think some of us who aren’t gay, non-binary or trans don’t want the association. Not that there’s anything wrong with any of them except they’re not me.

There was a “joke” once made on this forum that asked “what’s the difference between a cross dresser and a trans person?” Answer: about two years. I forget who told us this witticism but it bothered them.

Honestly, I don’t want to be lumped into the gay, non-binary or trans groups cause 1) I’m not and 2) I’d feel like an imposter. I know nothing of their struggles. Nothing wrong at all with any of those groups, they just ain’t me.

I can only speak for myself but I wonder if the increased tension I feel whilst wearing a skirt colors my interpretation of someone who addresses me. Are they being confrontational or inquisitive. And can I differentiate between the two whilst worrying that they don’t accept my skirt choice for clothing.

I do worry that most of humanity only knows three acceptable and one trashy reason a man wears a skirt. Three acceptable: gay (though we all know this is a silly association), non-binary and trans. Trashy: transvestite weirdo. The only way to change this is to discuss us. Men who are male and wear skirts for comfort/fashion.
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Re: Insults

Post by ScotL »

Coder wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:37 pm I don’t think people here are saying negative comments won’t be vocalized - just they shouldn’t be and their value is worth less than a grain of salt. We also shouldn’t accept this as normal behavior in civilized society.

My experience with people like this… they won’t be swayed, and any attempt at kindness will be met with derision. It’s just not worth the effort - be the bigger “man” and walk away. Plus - you are more likely to “convert” someone who gives a positive comment or asks in a nice/curious manner.
Someone with a positive comment is like preaching to the choir.

I guess I don’t think there is an all or none grouping of opinions on guys wearing skirts. Some clearly will be ardently against it and some will be in favor. The majority won’t have concrete positions and I feel this is where we come in.

Yes, you will never change the knuckle draggers.

Yet those who comment positively need no real conversion.

Most people are middle ground. Approaching them with the thought that they aren’t worth talking to, in my opinion, is unhelpful.

I believe simply extolling the virtues of wearing a skirt, wondering why they care so much and keeping the moral high ground is a better strategy than writing off people without a chat.

If directly confronted, I believe saying nothing confirms whatever stereotype they confronter has about you. Politely disagreeing and walking away with an “agree to disagree” attitude is helpful in my book.

Just my two cents.
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Re: Insults

Post by ScotL »

crfriend wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 2:44 pm
A correction would be offered, and possibly even accepted. It might even result in a conversation. If the correction was rejected it would say something about the interlocutor.
This. This is exactly what I mean. Thank you Carl for stating it. We should respond kindly to folks who challenge us and not care if they said something bad. We keep the moral high ground and maybe start to build bridges.
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Re: Insults

Post by ScotL »

jamie001 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 7:25 pm Why not just reply “if I wanted your opinion, I would ask you”. People need to learn to mind their own business. It is very disrespectful to do otherwise especially to deliver an insult.
My only problem with this response is it’s not nice. Why meet unkind statements with unkind replies? Why not take the moral high ground and respond kindly. I believe nothing good comes from arguments that contain rising tensions and impolite retorts.
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Re: Insults

Post by Coder »

ScotL wrote: Tue May 30, 2023 2:10 am Couldn’t agree with you more that what flavor we are shouldn’t matter but I think some of us who aren’t gay, non-binary or trans don’t want the association. Not that there’s anything wrong with any of them except they’re not me.
I agree - but here (at least in reference to the biker dude’s comments) this is making a lot of assumptions of what he was thinking. It’s one thing if someone calls you out as a member of one of those groups and you wish to set the record straight (just as one of those groups might take umbrage being called something they are not). But ultimately - unless you work with that person, or they are family or friends, does it really matter? You’ll see them once and (hopefully) never again - why does it matter what they think? I suggest it shouldn’t matter. There are billions of people on this planet, and what one insignificant speck thinks of another insignificant speck is hardly of any matter.
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