Intellectual Takeout: When Men Say ‘Yes’ to the Dress

[Coder]

On the trend of "negative things never get poster here", here's one of such articles:

https://intellectualtakeout.org/2021/08 ... the-dress/

This one is hilarious in a lot of ways, filled with inaccuracies, terrible takes, and a total misunderstanding of clothing in general.

The most ghastly part of the article - besides the entire article - is this statement:

With machismo discredited, the positive task is to make men caring, sensitive, even nurturing, to fit the restructured family. Thus once again men must be re-educated according to an abstract project.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is a pretty messed up view of the world. How dare men be caring! Sensitive! Nurturing! They must do WAR:

The souls of men—their ambitious, warlike, protective, possessive character—must be dismantled in order to liberate women from their domination.

Lest the quotes be taken out of context, I think the first one is her complaining that men are becoming weak by becoming caring/sensitive/etc... and the second is her lamenting that men are becoming LESS warlike.

I do find one gem of positivity in the article though:

This time, however, the trend of dress-wearing men isn’t limited to alternative sexualities; it is spreading to heterosexual males, demonstrating that Western society is truly becoming filled with weak men.

Feel free to lol at the "weak men" comment, I sure did - but the admission that alternative clothing ideas is expanding to heterosexual males is an interesting one. IMHO, I think the numbers are far higher than what we see in public, but men are straightjacketed in our society and don't know there is a path to wearing what they want without trying to mimic women.

I am curious if she only wears skirts/dresses, or puts on pants - oh wait, those pants would be "designed for the feminine form" so perfectly fine for HER to wear, but certainly not a shapeless tank dress on a man, and of course no skirts except perhaps a kilt - but only for special occasions.

[crfriend]

On the trend of "negative things never get poster here", here's one of such articles:

https://intellectualtakeout.org/2021/08 ... the-dress/

This one is hilarious in a lot of ways, filled with inaccuracies, terrible takes, and a total misunderstanding of clothing in general.

The most ghastly part of the article - besides the entire article - is this statement:

With machismo discredited, the positive task is to make men caring, sensitive, even nurturing, to fit the restructured family. Thus once again men must be re-educated according to an abstract project.

I wonder if Jamie001 wrote that. It sounds very much like her warped view of reality,

Unless I'm misunderstanding, this is a pretty messed up view of the world.

Definitely warped.

The question put in response to this, "Who is architecting this new future, and has there been any male input to it?"

In finishing, what one wears bears no relationship to one's strength. The only thing it represents is what one is wearing.

[Coder]

In finishing, what one wears bears no relationship to one's strength. The only thing it represents is what one is wearing.

Agreed 100%

[Barleymower]

Reading the article it sounds like there is a lot of fear and anger in the mind of the writer. The writer seems to be opposed to Femminism. The feminists progress for her, seems to come at a huge cost in making men weak (and I'm paraphrasing the writer) like women. She seems to want keep all the good stuff for girls and leave the hard work, providing and fighting to the men.

If I'm wrong in what I have read, let me know.

[Coder]

Reading the article it sounds like there is a lot of fear and anger in the mind of the writer. The writer seems to be opposed to Femminism. The feminists progress for her, seems to come at a huge cost in making men weak (and I'm paraphrasing the writer) like women. She seems to want keep all the good stuff for girls and leave the hard work, providing and fighting to the men.

If I'm wrong in what I have read, let me know.

I think that sums it up. I truly think there are a lot of misconceptions about what it means to be weak, what signifies weakness, and whether it's a bad thing*.

I'd also argue being a stay at home mom isn't an easy task - so I don't know if everything she thinks women should take on is the "good stuff" or "easy work". I do think some people tend to be very blasé about men being forced to go off to war - and that mindset is worrisome as it does NOT take into account the horrors of war, and the inequity in who is forced to serve/die whether they want to or not.



*I know my family would roll their eyes at a statement like this, but I think by devaluing weakness, people who are naturally weak are devalued even if we don't consciously see it that way. So even if weakness is undesirable, by highlighting it in people we are essentially marginalizing people who are physically weak due to their phyaical nature.

[Barleymower]

Reading the article it sounds like there is a lot of fear and anger in the mind of the writer. The writer seems to be opposed to Femminism. The feminists progress for her, seems to come at a huge cost in making men weak (and I'm paraphrasing the writer) like women. She seems to want keep all the good stuff for girls and leave the hard work, providing and fighting to the men.

If I'm wrong in what I have read, let me know.

I think that sums it up. I truly think there are a lot of misconceptions about what it means to be weak, what signifies weakness, and whether it's a bad thing*.

I'd also argue being a stay at home mom isn't an easy task - so I don't know if everything she thinks women should take on is the "good stuff" or "easy work". I do think some people tend to be very blasé about men being forced to go off to war - and that mindset is worrisome as it does NOT take into account the horrors of war, and the inequity in who is forced to serve/die whether they want to or not.



*I know my family would roll their eyes at a statement like this, but I think by devaluing weakness, people who are naturally weak are devalued even if we don't consciously see it that way. So even if weakness is undesirable, by highlighting it in people we are essentially marginalizing people who are physically weak due to their phyaical nature.

This getting to the crux of the matter. I should not have said "She seems to want keep all the good stuff for girls". Using her own words she wants women to take a supporting role. Then by inference leave the responsibility of providing and fighting to men.

In the year 2023 what will women like her be responible for? What is the purpose now for men? No wonder men are relaxing, letting down their guard and slipping in something nicer.

Again I think the fear is that when trouble arrives, men wont be there to protect, and the feminists wont be any use either. However I am in no doubt that strong men will still be strong even if they are in a skirt. Even if some of the men are not strong in stature they will still fight and win (in a skirt). Neither of the WW's was won by bravely running at machine guns. She has no need to worry.

[Stu]

The response from this writer is not unusual - it is quite normal for women to be resistant to anything which they see as detracting from the masculinity of men.

For some of us, here views are not aimed at us, nor pertinent to what we do. We don't want to be feminized or express femininity. We just want to eliminate the notion that skirt/dress - exclusively female - therefore feminine. Nobody associates a Scotsman in his kilt or a Hawaiian man in a sarong with femininity, yet those garments are types of skirt. So can't we extend that a bit so that men who are not Scotsmen or Hawaiian can also wear something that isn't trousers without being considered to be emulating women? We do have a few options as it stands, like Utilikilts, but these are not yet fully mainstream and any man who wears one is likely to attract attention as being a bit of an oddball. If a man does want to use skirts to express his perceived femininity - OK - you do you - but that only serves to reinforce the link between skirts and femininity, whereas I want to break that harmful association.

How is it harmful? A girl at primary school would like to wear trousers in winter because they are warmer than skirts - sure - no problem. A boy at primary school would like to wear dresses in summer because it's cooler than trousers. OMG!!! He must be trans or "non-binary" or gay or something. Send him to a psychologist!

[crfriend]

I truly think there are a lot of misconceptions about what it means to be weak, what signifies weakness, and whether it's a bad thing*.

There are differing forms of "weakness", and not all of those have to do with physicality -- some of those have to do with "weakness of character" which causes humans to lose focus on what's important. I've known diminutive men who whilst not being physically strong had amazing characters and could still overcome obstacles with ease.

Conversely, there are differing expressions of strength -- and sometimes in that realm the ability to restrain one's self using his character is vastly more important than being brutish about things. This is precisely why I tend to go on about the importance of emotions for guys, because those are part of our character and we ignore them at our peril. They help us to moderate a tendency to get physical right out of the gate.

The writer of the article is clearly confused, and she also makes heavy use of the rhetoric of the radical "feminists" that are out to completely and absolutely marginalise men. If she really wants to keep straight guys out of skirts and dresses, why doesn't she make the first effort and set a good example. But that'd be counter to the rad-fem mantra, so it's not going to happen. Conventional femininity, I fear, is as dead as the dodo -- and the worst of it is that that extinction has pushed men into the trap of machismo, and women are even starting to invade that space. It's time for men to take their turf back and learn to coexist with their sisters, so long as the sisters are willing to share that space -- just like we used to a half-century ago.

[Freedomforall]

“Why not do the opposite? Women can readopt the gentle, caring nature that was once solely their domain. “

So men cannot be gentle or caring!!?!! This is insane.

[jamie001]

OK - you do you - but that only serves to reinforce the link between skirts and femininity, whereas I want to break that harmful association.

How is it harmful? A girl at primary school would like to wear trousers in winter because they are warmer than skirts - sure - no problem. A boy at primary school would like to wear dresses in summer because it's cooler than trousers. OMG!!! He must be trans or "non-binary" or gay or something. Send him to a psychologist!

There is still a link between masculine clothing and masculinity. There have been many articles in women's magazines about adding masculinity or masculine clothing to a women's wardrobe. No one cries foul over these types of articles, however if a man wears a skirt, all hell breaks loose.

Regarding needing a psychologist, this is the mindset that predominantly exists in the Southern states of the USA. It is a news of far right-wing conservatives.

[Barleymower]

It's time for men to take their turf back and learn to coexist with their sisters, so long as the sisters are willing to share that space -- just like we used to a half-century ago.

Very true. I been saying this ever since I embarked on this adventure.

[jamie001]

I wonder if Jamie001 wrote that. It sounds very much like her warped view of reality,

In finishing, what one wears bears no relationship to one's strength. The only thing it represents is what one is wearing.

There is nothing wrong with my view. Femininity is superior to masculinity and will eventually prevail. This scenario is already playing out in society.

1. Look at college graduation statistics. Women are graduating at extraordinarily high numbers, while men are playing X-Box and packing groceries at the local supermarket. As women continue to be more educated, men will become second class citizens.

2. What percentage of people that go goofy with a gun are women, maybe 2 or 3 percent.

3. Women are much less violent. We need to evolve into a Bonobo Society with women in charge. Men will be in the hierarchy provided that they can emulate women and adopt the feminine mindset.

There have been many papers and articles published on this subject and therefore it is not only my viewpoint.

Respectfully,

Jamie

[Barleymower]

The response from this writer is not unusual - it is quite normal for women to be resistant to anything which they see as detracting from the masculinity of men.

For some of us, here views are not aimed at us, nor pertinent to what we do. We don't want to be feminized or express femininity. We just want to eliminate the notion that skirt/dress - exclusively female - therefore feminine. Nobody associates a Scotsman in his kilt or a Hawaiian man in a sarong with femininity, yet those garments are types of skirt. So can't we extend that a bit so that men who are not Scotsmen or Hawaiian can also wear something that isn't trousers without being considered to be emulating women? We do have a few options as it stands, like Utilikilts, but these are not yet fully mainstream and any man who wears one is likely to attract attention as being a bit of an oddball. If a man does want to use skirts to express his perceived femininity - OK - you do you - but that only serves to reinforce the link between skirts and femininity, whereas I want to break that harmful association.

How is it harmful? A girl at primary school would like to wear trousers in winter because they are warmer than skirts - sure - no problem. A boy at primary school would like to wear dresses in summer because it's cooler than trousers. OMG!!! He must be trans or "non-binary" or gay or something. Send him to a psychologist!

I mostly agree with what you say, except that I don't think I or any man needs to be afraid of femininity. Your inner self will show itself regardless of your dress. Like "gadar" a gay man can't hide his gayness from gay men. When a straight man looks a women with desire she knows before he does.
Wear the clothes you want, you really can't hide who you are. People mostly see through these vain attempts to deceive.

[Barleymower]

I wonder if Jamie001 wrote that. It sounds very much like her warped view of reality,

In finishing, what one wears bears no relationship to one's strength. The only thing it represents is what one is wearing.

There is nothing wrong with my view. Femininity is superior to masculinity and will eventually prevail. This scenario is already playing out in society.

1. Look at college graduation statistics. Women are graduating at extraordinarily high numbers, while men are playing X-Box and packing groceries at the local supermarket. As women continue to be more educated, men will become second class citizens.

2. What percentage of people that go goofy with a gun are women, maybe 2 or 3 percent.

3. Women are much less violent. We need to evolve into a Bonobo Society with women in charge. Men will be in the hierarchy provided that they can emulate women and adopt the feminine mindset.

There have been many papers and articles published on this subject and therefore it is not only my viewpoint.

Respectfully,

Jamie

I not going to get into this other than to say; don't take too much notice of current trends, they may last for quite a while yet, maybe even beyond my lifespan.

But know this: femininity is not superior to masulinity. Men and women belong together, they are equals. The pendulum might swing one way but as it swings it is gathering energy for the return journey.

In her own misguided way the writer is trying to restore that balance.

[crfriend]

There is nothing wrong with my view. Femininity is superior to masculinity and will eventually prevail. This scenario is already playing out in society.

Well, if you're a guy then die. I'm not OK with that.

1. Look at college graduation statistics.

Fact: Men and boys have been systematically discriminated against and marginalised for the past few decades.

2. What percentage of people that go goofy with a gun are women, maybe 2 or 3 percent.

Who started the fad of "school shootings"? A girl. Why? Because she "didn't like Mondays".

3. Women are much less violent.

Women can be just as violent as men, and frequently are. It just doesn't get the press that it does the other way 'round.

All I'm saying is that your viewpoint doesn't align with what the rest of us consider reality.