Frills and Ruffles

[Ozdelights]

There is precisely one difference between "men's" shirts and what are known as "blouses" -- the tails. Contemplate that for a few moments, and then think about items like Hawaiian shirts and madras shirts which lack tails, and thus can be worn nicely untucked as the tails are designed to hold told the things inside the trousers. Now, contemplate the new "fad" of "shirts" designed to be worn "untucked" (or, worse, in the "French tuck" -- those are blouses. Full stop.

We should not let the lexicon get in the way of progress.

I dare say high end fashion still refer to 'blouses' but in my part of the world most discussion and advertising is referring to them under the women's section as 'tops' or sometimes 'shirts'. Blouse seems to be losing favour here. Becoming a bit more neutral?

[Myopic Bookworm]

As it happens, I passed a guy today wearing a frill! No skirt, but dark trousers and a fairly smart dark jacket, over a purple top with a deep V neck edged with a frill, which must surely have come from the F side of the aisle. At a distance I couldn't discern the wearer's gender, which tends to capture my attention, but at close quarters it was quite clearly a man in his 60s, otherwise entirely masculine in appearance. A nice example of stretching the gender envelope without frightening the horses.

(I didn't pass comment, as I was more than 3/4 of the way through a 5km run, and so almost incapable of coherent speech.)

[denimini]

I dislike Men's shirts because the tails stick out below the hem of my mini skirts looking like a wayward petticoat.

"Dock" them then?
Steve.

Yes, docking tails is quite common around here.

[JeffB1959]

Ironically, while I think nothing of wearing flower print dresses during spring and summer, frills and ruffles just aren’t my cup of tea and would never consider sporting such items.

[Dust]

There is precisely one difference between "men's" shirts and what are known as "blouses" -- the tails. Contemplate that for a few moments, and then think about items like Hawaiian shirts and madras shirts which lack tails, and thus can be worn nicely untucked as the tails are designed to hold told the things inside the trousers. Now, contemplate the new "fad" of "shirts" designed to be worn "untucked" (or, worse, in the "French tuck" -- those are blouses. Full stop.
We should not let the lexicon get in the way of progress.

I would say there are often a lot more differences, but that the tails (and handing) are one of the more common ones. The real thing is the variety women have...

I've been seeking out slimmer fitting men's shirts to go with straight skirts for some time. They work well as plain menswear, too. I'd say it has improved my appearance while wearing trousers as well.

[moonshadow]

Personally, I prefer a more simple, plain look.

But that's part of my religious tradition--I'm a Mennonite.

I too have been leaning towards the more basic skirts with plain tops (tee-shirts usually). More so for practicality. They seem more rugged and not as jarring in society (easier for me to function and participate in said society when not prancing around like a flaming peacock).

Though I'm not a part of any religious tradition, I will admit that I have also been trying to keep my vanity in check as well.

No judgment on those who have different preferences, and strong support of the freedom to make such choices.

+1

[Faldaguy]

by moonshadow » Sat Apr 15, 2023 10:21 pm

I too have been leaning towards the more basic skirts with plain tops (tee-shirts usually). More so for practicality. They seem more rugged and not as jarring in society (easier for me to function and participate in said society when not prancing around like a flaming peacock).

Though I'm not a part of any religious tradition, I will admit that I have also been trying to keep my vanity in check as well.

I can resonate with these thoughts. A simple denim skirt and work shirt allow us to "pass" so readily, and are often practical. Clearly plain colors without a lot 'feminine frill' passes almost unnoticed anywhere.

However, aside from the fun and pleasure it can be to wear something that appeals for color, texture, and mood-- I concede I do sometimes want to 'shove it in their face'-- to get people, men in particular, to think about their living in a rut of conformity and regimentation. I am not sure if I help that cause by sometimes being a bit outlandish, or if I hinder it?

[denimini]

Why shouldn't men have fun?

[STEVIE]

Men aren't expected to be frivolous when it comes to clothes. That is the real benefit of crossing the aisle, we can have fun with it.
Show the world the pleasure in brightness and maybe others will eventually follow.
Drab is only ever likely to spawn drab and we will be stuck with it.
Steve.

[crfriend]

Show the world the pleasure in brightness and maybe others will eventually follow.
Drab is only ever likely to spawn drab and we will be stuck with it.

How true that is!

I quite liked the flashy little mini that Anthony posted. I'd wear that for casual times in the summer!

[Dust]

Men aren't expected to be frivolous when it comes to clothes.

I think you could have stopped right there. It's not just clothes. We are treated as beasts of burden in most cases, nothing more. Even learning to treat yourself as a full human being can be a challenge for some men.

Show the world the pleasure in brightness and maybe others will eventually follow.
Drab is only ever likely to spawn drab and we will be stuck with it.

I think people are drawn to happy people. I'm optimistic that this will work.

But you will get more attention than you are used to, and that makes those of us who have blended in our whole lives, a bit nervous. And if you are nervous, people can sense that, too, and aren't drawn to it at all...

[Barleymower]

Men aren't expected to be frivolous when it comes to clothes.

I think you could have stopped right there. It's not just clothes. We are treated as beasts of burden in most cases, nothing more. Even learning to treat yourself as a full human being can be a challenge for some men.

Show the world the pleasure in brightness and maybe others will eventually follow.
Drab is only ever likely to spawn drab and we will be stuck with it.

I think people are drawn to happy people. I'm optimistic that this will work.

But you will get more attention than you are used to, and that makes those of us who have blended in our whole lives, a bit nervous. And if you are nervous, people can sense that, too, and aren't drawn to it at all...

I am generally positive. I'm ona bit of a downer right now and feel angry a lot of the time. Mostly I keep a cheery face. There's no point in going around with a long face. Sometimes you have to smile until the smile is genuine.
When I read that we are treated as beasts of burden. I agree. I fell out with the inlaws because I thought they just see me as a resource. The other daughter is married too and her husband hasn't finished the bathroom after two years. I'm told he's in a bad way mentally since the lock down. He's still working from home and doesn't get out much. I'm also told M in law isn't interested in his mental health. He should just get on with it. I have offered to help btw.

[Dust]

I am generally positive. I'm ona bit of a downer right now and feel angry a lot of the time. Mostly I keep a cheery face. There's no point in going around with a long face. Sometimes you have to smile until the smile is genuine.
When I read that we are treated as beasts of burden. I agree. I fell out with the inlaws because I thought they just see me as a resource. The other daughter is married too and her husband hasn't finished the bathroom after two years. I'm told he's in a bad way mentally since the lock down. He's still working from home and doesn't get out much. I'm also told M in law isn't interested in his mental health. He should just get on with it. I have offered to help btw.

Lockdown was brutal on everyone. Suicides were through the roof, statistically. You need interaction with people, and not just online. Too many guys have almost nothing outside work and home.

I dropped nearly everything outside work and family to do work on my house for about eight months, and it was brutal. Fun, but as it went on, I realized it had been too long since I did anything with friends, hobbies, etc. Heck, I wasn't even doing online "retail therapy."

No shame in taking a break, and even if he's working from home, a full time job will mean projects like that take way longer than expected. My dad took three years on a basement (with no plumbing) when I was a kid. And if he was tasked with it and didn't really want to in the first place, he's going to be in a rough place.

Keep reaching out. If she's not letting him out, maybe you can offer to help some specific Saturday, more for the quality time than the actual job....

[crfriend]

Barleymower:

Keep reaching out. If she's not letting him out, maybe you can offer to help some specific Saturday, more for the quality time than the actual job....

This is wise, and it is well worth recalling that whether we like to admit it or not humans are social animals and need the presence of others to be fully healthy.

Arrange something, bring along a few tipples of something known to be liked, and, yes, chat about The Project", but take care to mention, "How are you feeling? I hear unsettling things from time to time.", and let the conversation flow from there.

We are intimately connected to our "communities" (no matter what form they may take), and without those we wither and die -- as if shunned. "Lockdown" was a social catastrophe, and one that we still need to grapple with -- and mental health needs were completely and utterly ignored by the "powers that be". I was "sent home to die" on my late father's birthday in 2020 (I haven't acquiesced yet!), and the evening before at my local the atmosphere was positively funereal; my parting crack to a few of my acquaintances was, "This is going to drive the suicide-rate through the ceiling!" and that actually came to pass -- and it's only gotten worse because of all the stigma surrounding mental health. Men are human too, but we're expected to be stoic and not show distress; and that causes tragedy in too many situations.

So, be compassionate with your fellow humans (unless they're wronging you). They may be in distress too.

[Barleymower]

It's difficult not to waffle in a post. My brother in law and I are not close, we are very different characters. He does get out, he plays in a band, including practice. That's half the problem isn't it? He has something so the perception is he's fine and should get on with it.

People need more than getting out once a week.

I've offered help but I doubt he'll accept. I've built a patio, a small extension, refitted the bathroom and the kitchen since lockdown began. Bully for me. I'm also a crossdresser. I definitely don't see it that way but that's my perception of the reality.
I'm invading the frills and ruffles thread so I'll leave it there.

Men are not expected to be frivolous. That's where I jumped in on skirts and went straight for the frivolous. It was all a bit of a shock. I love fluffy stuff! Until its too fluffy. Then I want to vomit.