Tennessee Senate Bill 3

[Elisabetta]

@moonshadow - You're overreacting - Tennessee is so far the only state that has actually passed a "drag ban" that COULD be interpreted to apply to men in skirts (and it's been blocked from being enforced while being reviewed by the courts) - at least from what I've heard in the news. A few more states have similar laws pending, but AFAIK none have been enacted yet.

Florida is about to pass a law that could affect some LGBTQ+ events, but based on the language used we MIS should be safe there. Some of the other states' bills have language like this one that do not call out drag/crossdressing (specifically or with alternate language like the TN law does) per se but use language that calls out "sexualized" performances - which is less sinister for us as long as we're not trying to have a "sexualized" appearance.

It's the fine points of any such enacted laws (which would vary by what each state passes) that the MIS community would need to be on the look out for - whether or not the law could be interpreted to apply to our actions.

I don't think my husband is overacting I think all these banning people over what they wear is ridiculous. Our daughter was telling me today that in Florida they're removing kids from homes if they're trans and placing them in state custody. This world's gone to hell in a hand basket.

[Jim]

By the way Jim... that picture you posted in Frills and Ruffles... can you say beyond a shadow of any doubt that you'd feel legally safe wearing that in Tennessee right now? Even in the thread you point out that your won't wear it in public.. why?

Yes, I'd feel legally safe. I would be unlikely to wear it in public because the frilly stuff and the bustline for someone without much breast tissue make it look silly to me. I don't observe Halloween, but if somehow I went to a costume party I might wear it.

[JeffB1959]

In my humble opinion, this is all about Republicans (or, as I call them, "Qpublicans" for their association with loony tune, right wing conspiracy group QAnon) waging culture wars because they don't have a damn thing to offer the people in the way of solutions to REAL problems like gun violence, the sagging economy, climate change and the terrible income gulf between the haves and have-nots, just to name a few concerns. Waging war on drag queens, and, by extension, the LGTBQ+ community sates the legions of hate filled evangelicals, and that's all Qpublicans care about, keeping their voter base fat, dumb and happy.

[ScotL]

You mean like FoxNews and the revelations of their announcers stating obvious lies in TV but texting to each other how much they didn’t believe the lies but needed them to keep the base watching?

[JeffB1959]

You mean like FoxNews and the revelations of their announcers stating obvious lies in TV but texting to each other how much they didn’t believe the lies but needed them to keep the base watching?

Bingo! And those lies cost Faux News nearly $800 million.

Meanwhile, I have no doubt that states run by Qpublicans will draft similar bills like what Tennessee crafted. What should concern all of us is that right wingers won’t at all distinguish drag queens from transwomen from men like us who like wearing clothes from the other side of the aisle. In their eyes, they see us all as deviants and a menace to the children whom conservatives never gave a damn about until just recently.

[ScotL]

the children whom conservatives never gave a damn about until just recently.

Do they really care? With daily school shootings, I’m doubtful that politicians really care. I’m ok with people suggesting gun control may not be the solution but then what is their solution? I am all for debate but when all you hear is “it’s not the guns” and never hear “this is our plan” it makes one wonder. Like you said do they really have a plan?

I also have a feeling a transwoman would have nothing in common with us. If asked. Or evaluated. I have the feeling they would suggest we are going through two very different struggles, ours being small peanuts compared to theirs. Just my opinion.

[FLbreezy]

Rules for thee, but not for me! It's ok when the right people do it, I guess.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-pol ... -rcna79524

[rode_kater]

I also have a feeling a transwoman would have nothing in common with us. If asked. Or evaluated. I have the feeling they would suggest we are going through two very different struggles, ours being small peanuts compared to theirs. Just my opinion.

What we have in common is that we both want to be able to live our lives as we see fit, without judgement. We'd both be under-fire under a Christian Taliban, though they'd have much much worse. We can at least blend in easier.

[moonshadow]

Rules for thee, but not for me! It's ok when the right people do it, I guess.

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-pol ... -rcna79524

Personally, if this is the direction red states want to go, then I'd propose we return to the way things were around the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries... whereas on public beaches men were expected to keep their torso covered and women weren't even allowed to show hardly any skin at all... they even had little private changing houses in the water for modesty.

It seems hypocritical to say that fully clothed drag queens reading a story book is inappropriate for children on the one hand, and in the other abide thongs and bikinis on public beaches.... oh... for cisgendered women ONLY.

Modesty is modesty after all.

Jesus said if your eye causes you to lust, better to gouge it out...

I've got a spoon for any holier than thou politician that wants to "lead by example"....

There'd be a lot of blind men walking around... and a lot of women buried under piles of rocks.

[moonshadow]

That's right Florida... it's time to cancel spring break. I don't see how that's a very "family friendly spectacle".

Also I want to see every single strip club shut down in West Virginia... no more of those sultry billboards on the interstate.

Tennessee... well... you actually seem to tow the line pretty good. You've already banned pretty much everything.... oh booze... no more alcohol sold in private liquor stores.

Liquor is an abomination Tennessee... or have you checked the manual lately...?

I mean... let's think of the children here. I've got a LONG list of things that need to be banned if we are going full on puritan.

[Coder]

Ohhhh - double standards.... starts at 34 seconds...

https://www.mediamatters.org/ben-shapir ... nal-female

Should wearing dresses and skirts be illegal for men in public? If so, should wearing pants for women in public be illegal in public?

Well, pants not so much because there is a female version of pants that is nearly indistinguishable in many cases from male pants.

But men wearing traditional female clothing in public – I think that there is a case that local communities should be able to stop that. Sure, I mean, we have local laws about being naked or indecent exposure, at least we used to.

Also - there's a recent article out there about some cray cray politicians from Montana who sound like the taliban who would most certainly not distinguish us from the lgbtq+.

But I guess - if such communities make this illegal, you just move from the area, right?

[Coder]

Lest anyone misunderstand me: If you are going to straightjacket men into wearing "traditional men's clothes" (circa 1990?), then you must also do so for women. No double standards. If I can see two pipes, it'd better be a man wearing them. No more pants for women - in fact, why stop at clothes? They shouldn't* be allowed to hold a traditional male job, or even a job in the first place, or vote (*sarcasm people, I am being sarcastic). I mean, it's the logical conclusion they are headed towards. And to women who support them - secretly this is what they are thinking. They just can't say it right now because they need your support.

Why does this bug me? Because conservatives talk all the time about freedom, autonomy, but when it comes to a very inconsequential thing - what we wear - they get all authoritarian. I suppose it wouldn't end there, which is also troubling. I fear the radicals on both sides for different reasons - I just want to be left alone!

[crfriend]

Lest anyone misunderstand me: If you are going to straightjacket men into wearing "traditional men's clothes" (circa 1990?), then you must also do so for women. No double standards. If I can see two pipes, it'd better be a man wearing them. No more pants for women - in fact, why stop at clothes? They shouldn't* be allowed to hold a traditional male job, or even a job in the first place, or vote (*sarcasm people, I am being sarcastic). I mean, it's the logical conclusion they are headed towards. And to women who support them - secretly this is what they are thinking. They just can't say it right now because they need your support.

Sarcasm isn't necessarily useful here because you're pointing out a potential alternate future and are quite correctly implicitly asking people, "Do you really want to live in that sort of world?" With that in mind, you can use wording like that with lethal intent simply because you are pointing up the possibility that it might actually happen. That's not sarcasm -- that's a warning.

[Coder]

Sarcasm isn't necessarily useful here because you're pointing out a potential alternate future and are quite correctly implicitly asking people, "Do you really want to live in that sort of world?" With that in mind, you can use wording like that with lethal intent simply because you are pointing up the possibility that it might actually happen. That's not sarcasm -- that's a warning.

Very true - I think my sarcasm is a defense mechanism because I say to myself, "no one in their right minds would want to devolve, go back to a society where men and women were treated unequally" and so forth. I have a hard time imagining we could slide backwards... and yet it is a frightening possibility.

[moonshadow]

Curious... just what makes this guy think he has such authority over me??

That guy can kiss my ass. He doesn't own me. He doesn't pay my bills, he ain't my mama or my daddy.

Who the hell does he think he is? And he's so casual about it too... so nonchalant.

Maybe he wants to dictate what I'm allowed to eat? Say daddy Ben.... when's my bedtime tonight pa? You gonna tell me what time I'm allowed to eat supper too? I'd like to see him say it to my face...

Punk

People like that just make me so mad... such audacity.