skirtcafe.org

https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2022/1 ... al-clothes

A weird premise - secondhand shopping has been around forever. I also think people will police themselves (the article talks about no gendered labels on clothing racks), I can imagine some guys looking through a rack and joking about the intermix of clothes - no such conversation would happen between women.

As long as you live your authentic self, that's the coolest style. Fashion is freedom of expression.

I can live with that. I do find "authentic self" a bit cringey, though. Like, these are clothes, people, not a lifestyle!

“The fact that gender in fashion is constructed is made very apparent in the history lesson you get while looking through thrift racks,” he says. “You’re looking at items from different time periods when men’s trends have become women’s trends and vice versa.” This also normalizes a gender-fluid shopping experience for generations to come.

I feel like while this is true, for the majority of people this is another point to ridicule the past rather than expand one's understanding.

The article is mainly focused on queerness/LGBTQIA+ but I think it has some points that are relevant, especially what they say about retailers jumping into the space.

Coder wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:21 pmThe article is mainly focused on queerness/LGBTQIA+ but I think it has some points that are relevant, especially what they say about retailers jumping into the space.

That's one of the problems -- most of these articles are written in the LGBTQWTF vein, and that puts off the 95% of the population that isn't that way.

Bluntly, until we start seeing heterosexual couples with the guy in "peacock mode" as a common sight on the street we're going to be stuck where we are, and if "alternate fashion"/"peacock mode" becomes the exclusive purview of the 5% then the 95% are done for for at least another couple of human generations. I'm beginning to think that we've got one shot left. We're behind already with faltering sight-lines, and if we lose the angle we've lost the shot.

crfriend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:41 pm I'm beginning to think that we've got one shot left.

Nah. It takes hundreds of years for fashion styles to change, and we'll never see the change happen in real time. It will be subtle and one day we'll be in it. It could be precipitated by a movie that changes how people see things, perhaps a book. We just need one craze to set it off (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordi ... _of_Crowds). But again, what does it matter? While I want other men to wear bright colors so I don't feel embarrassed, time and time again we all recognize that we don't have to wait for them (it just makes dating women more difficult).

crfriend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:41 pm Bluntly, until we start seeing heterosexual couples with the guy in "peacock mode" as a common sight on the street we're going to be stuck where we are.

Sure thing! When my son was at a summer drama course a couple of years ago, one of the mothers was dressed up to the nines: sheer leggings, high heels, leather and leopard print, mirror sunglasses, the lot. When all the parents turned up for the final performance, her husband looked utterly out of place next to her in faded jeans, T shirt, and sneakers. He wasn't even making an attempt at stylish casual: just dressing like a bloke who fell carelessly out of bed into the same clothes every morning.

Never mind skirts, I want to see more men dressing like the impeccably masculine Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen. (If you don't know him, look him up!)

Myopic Bookworm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:24 pmNever mind skirts, I want to see more men dressing like the impeccably masculine Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen. (If you don't know him, look him up!)

For the win on that count.

Another issue is that given how truly awful women's "fashion" has gotten recently, the guys don't need to try terribly hard to one-up (or more) the gals in the style sense. In fact, one of the things I worry about in the back of my mind if this hopeful romance takes off is that she's going to have to "up her game" a bit so as not to look like a rag-doll next to me in public. Shredded denim and flip-flop sandals do not compare well to my style at all. And women do not like being upstaged.

Coder wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:14 pm

crfriend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:41 pm I'm beginning to think that we've got one shot left.

Nah. It takes hundreds of years for fashion styles to change, and we'll never see the change happen in real time. It will be subtle and one day we'll be in it. [...] But again, what does it matter? While I want other men to wear bright colors so I don't feel embarrassed, time and time again we all recognize that we don't have to wait for them (it just makes dating women more difficult).

I was referring to "we" to mean the current generation that's presently "alive" on this miserable rock, not some notional "future generation". Once I'm dead I'm not going to give a damn.

The sad fact is that if we wait for someone else to "start the fire" (as Billy Joel once brilliantly put it) we're going to die before we see so much as a flicker. We must be the change we wish to see in the world -- to lead by example with force, grace, and attitude. If that comes across as Farragut yelling, "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" it's meant to. Sometimes one needs to approach things with guts. "No balls, no blue chips."

Myopic Bookworm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:24 pm

crfriend wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:41 pm Bluntly, until we start seeing heterosexual couples with the guy in "peacock mode" as a common sight on the street we're going to be stuck where we are.

Sure thing! When my son was at a summer drama course a couple of years ago, one of the mothers was dressed up to the nines: sheer leggings, high heels, leather and leopard print, mirror sunglasses, the lot. When all the parents turned up for the final performance, her husband looked utterly out of place next to her in faded jeans, T shirt, and sneakers. He wasn't even making an attempt at stylish casual: just dressing like a bloke who fell carelessly out of bed into the same clothes every morning.

Never mind skirts, I want to see more men dressing like the impeccably masculine Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen. (If you don't know him, look him up!)

I see this a kit when I go out to the show. Women, dressed to the nines. Men, like they just rolled out of bed. It’s pathetic.

There’s a lost art to looking good and being comfortable. Problem is it takes time and the comfortable stuff that doesn’t take time to find/tailor… are sweat pants that out you in goblin mode

Coder wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 2:21 pm https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2022/1 ... al-clothes

A weird premise - secondhand shopping has been around forever. I also think people will police themselves (the article talks about no gendered labels on clothing racks), I can imagine some guys looking through a rack and joking about the intermix of clothes - no such conversation would happen between women.

As long as you live your authentic self, that's the coolest style. Fashion is freedom of expression.

I can live with that. I do find "authentic self" a bit cringey, though. Like, these are clothes, people, not a lifestyle!

I get your cringe but what you wear is a manifestation of who you are. In some respect. If I’m right, you cringe because you object to the idea that you are what you wear and not you wear what you do because of who you are

A male customer was at my till the other day, smartly dressed - shirt, tie, waistcoat and I remarked on his smartness. "Standards, dear sir," he said. Thumbs up to that.

Sinned wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:53 pm"Standards, dear sir," he said. Thumbs up to that.

Well said. The world needs more like him.

Sinned wrote: ↑Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:53 pm "Standards, dear sir," he said. Thumbs up to that.

Using my dubious powers of deduction, was he of a certain vintage and perhaps sounded like a "Mail" reader?
If I am correct, then I would have liked his views on men in skirts.
Before anyone jumps in, yes, you do detect a certain degree of prejudice but balance of probability says his "standards" would find us lacking.
Steve.

I'd say in his late 40's early 50's. Sorry Steve, I don't know what a typical DM reader looks like. I read it but the I belong to the "someone called me normal and I was never so insulted in all my life" club.

Sinned wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 12:33 am I'd say in his late 40's early 50's. Sorry Steve, I don't know what a typical DM reader looks like. I read it but the I belong to the "someone called me normal and I was never so insulted in all my life" club.

Apologies, that was quite judgemental on my part.
However, I still wonder how he might react to a guy in a skirt though.
Steve.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:23 am However, I still wonder how he might react to a guy in a skirt though.
Steve.

Hmmm, the answer to this question intrigues me as well.

If he is of the ironic hipster vibe - I presume he would be fine with guys in skirts, especially if they pay homage to vintage looks.

If he is more of a stuffy “men should be men” type… I fear he would look down on MIS, except for men wearing a “proper kilt” with full regalia, which he wouldn’t regard as a skirt.

I'm not sure where the writer is from or what second hand shops they go to.
But the ones around here that I go to are very much sorted by gender.
Of the clothing area I'd say 60 percent is devoted to women's tops and bottoms.
The remaining 40 percent would include men's shirts and pants, boys and girls and baby's clothes

The stores I go to do a fairly good job of keeping clothes sorted by sex as far as I can tell. I have found women's shorts in with the women's skirts. From time to time. And one or two mixup s in denim shorts. Men's in women's and women's in men's. Some of those shorts are pretty hard to discern which is which. It's kind of a fun practice to make a best guess on the intended sex they are for, and then look for the size tag or brand label to determine what they are.


And the ladies skirts rack is getting shorter regardless of season.

I'm glad I'm stocked up on skirts. When they were more abundant.