Reading drag queen story hour. Radicals attempt citizen arrest

[ScotL]

Sometimes I think "protesters" (both sides) are just people on some special interest payroll somewhere.

I think you’re correct. Some are. They’re called lobbyists in the US. My Dutch friends had a different name for them in their government but I forget it. Met a women at a concert once who was paid to rally the crowd cause they were filming a music video. Paying people to influence others is called marketing. Happens everywhere. Even saw it in China.

But some are driven by their interests. Why waste a beautiful Saturday when you could be fishing unless you’re really passionate about something. I’ve voluntarily gone to protests cause it struck a chord with me. And I thought it was worth doing.

And at any protest, there are always those who piggyback on another’s cause. I can’t remember ever going to a music festival and not seeing the NORML (National Organization for the Reformation of the Marijuana Laws) people there.

I feel at anyone protest, there’s such a gemish of folks there each for their own reasons, to boil it down to a single reason is impossible.

[pelmut]

[...]
I do not agree that transwomen are the most hated group of people in the UK at present. I go out presenting as a woman as well as a man in a skirt. The public would not know the difference between me and a transwoman - yet I have never had a bad experience or been on the receiving end of any hate. Quite the reverse - people are lovely to me.

The British press and the BBC run a continual drip feed of anti-trans stories which gives the impression that transwomen are hated, but my experience as a full-time transwoman has been the same as yours: everyone is much nicer to me than when I was the thing that women fear most ...a man.

[moonshadow]

But some are driven by their interests. Why waste a beautiful Saturday when you could be fishing unless you’re really passionate about something. I’ve voluntarily gone to protests cause it struck a chord with me. And I thought it was worth doing.

My issue is that I don't completely agree with most if any of the major protesting groups making headlines. Even with the transgender issue, there are a handful of things that many in the pro-trans community push for that I can't fully get behind. And if I'm going to chance having my face broadcast all over God's creation advocating for a hot button issue, I want it to be one I completely support AND understand.

Some might say I'm part of the "silent majority"... whatever that means.

I don't know.. there's so much going on right now, so many different issues, and each issue has several complex layers. It's not that I don't want to help, but it's all just so overwhelming.

As for this drag queen, while I personally don't see what the big deal is, I reckon if it's going to cause all this commotion, hell, just shut it down then before somebody gets hurt... or killed. Let the kids go back to what they were doing prior... killing each other off in violent video games and sexting each other on social media...

You know... good wholesome family entertainment.

[Barleymower]

[...]
I do not agree that transwomen are the most hated group of people in the UK at present. I go out presenting as a woman as well as a man in a skirt. The public would not know the difference between me and a transwoman - yet I have never had a bad experience or been on the receiving end of any hate. Quite the reverse - people are lovely to me.

The British press and the BBC run a continual drip feed of anti-trans stories which gives the impression that transwomen are hated, but my experience as a full-time transwoman has been the same as yours: everyone is much nicer to me than when I was the thing that women fear most ...a man.

It feels like trans women are a patsy for a bigger agenda. Trans women are being blamed for entering women spaces and violating women. Its utter rubbish and being used to further label men and evil. Lie all you want the truth will out.
For what is is worth I think the drag queen story hour is a safe space where LGBT+ can say: "we are not the enemy". Drag Queens are a lovely, harmless bunch of great guys. They are being hijacked for bigger agenda. Again the truth will out.
In other news I have spent the whole weekend (Thursday to Sunday) in a skirt! I had to compromise a bit and wear kilt type skirt. I spent Thursday in my eighties curtains (actually a silk tie dyed blue skirt). Which came with whispers in macdonalds. My tarten wrap which had lots of conversations including which clan I'm from (I'm such a fraud). Back into the blue number for Saturday and then out with family to Agatha Cristies house in Dartmouth in my green cotton /silk skirt and no grief at all. Now back home and I'm in a black, pleated M&S pleated polyester skirt. I actually like polyester, you can sit in in it all day and it doesn't look like a rag like silk does (top tip there).
I even went shooting at Ashcombe in the kilt'esk skirt. Mostly I got a good reception and some very nice conversations. One went on a little too long and I had to break it off or miss out on valuable shooting time. I did get one group of boys and girls at the ground openly sniggering which I ignored.
I'm going to try and keep it going for a week. I'm walking my daughter to the bus in the morning and taking youngest to/from school all week (the playground eek). After that it's plain sailing, working from home and bit of shopping.
I also had a lovely offline conversation with Pelmut, thank you Pelmut.

[ScotL]

My issue is that I don't completely agree with most if any of the major protesting groups making headlines. Even with the transgender issue, there are a handful of things that many in the pro-trans community push for that I can't fully get behind. And if I'm going to chance having my face broadcast all over God's creation advocating for a hot button issue, I want it to be one I completely support AND understand.

And so you don’t go. Protests vote with the feet of the protesters. If the topic isn’t supported by protestors, then there’s no protest. I think it’s ok either way. This is how people move mountains or die on mole hills.

[rivegauche]

Women always going to be afraid of men when they feel vulnerable. A woman in a toilet or a changing room has legal protection from assault by a male in the same way they have everywhere else. Attacking women or exposing your bits to women is illegal wherever you do it. The problem is that the record of successful prosecutions for crimes by men against women is a national disgrace. We even have Police, and the Met in particular, where the Police are sometimes the problem. Society MUST take this more seriously - when women cannot even walk home at night without feeling scared (with reason) we cannot claim we have a civilised country.

[rode_kater]

My issue is that I don't completely agree with most if any of the major protesting groups making headlines. Even with the transgender issue, there are a handful of things that many in the pro-trans community push for that I can't fully get behind. And if I'm going to chance having my face broadcast all over God's creation advocating for a hot button issue, I want it to be one I completely support AND understand.

If you will only go to a protest about something you 100% agree on, then you will never attend a protest. People are not so homogeneous that you can get a group of 50+ people to agree 100% on anything, let alone to protest about it. That's fine, most people never protest anything.

It's actually similar to: if you'll only vote for a party that you 100% agree with, you'll never vote. At some point you cut your losses and say: I think it's important enough to support and accept some nutjobs are going to be there too.

As for this drag queen, while I personally don't see what the big deal is, I reckon if it's going to cause all this commotion, hell, just shut it down then before somebody gets hurt... or killed.

Sounds a lot like "let them win". It takes more courage to keep going.

Then they came for the drag queens, and I did nothing, because I'm not a drag queen.
Then they came for the transpeople, and I did nothing, because I'm not trans.
Then they came for the women wearing a headscarf, and I did nothing, because I don't wear a headscarf.
Then they came for the men in skirts?

All fundamentalism is bad, even when it's christian.

[Stu]

I have no problem with drag - but context is everything.

We have had pantomime in the UK for many many years and children adore it - and the pantomime dames. They are funny and harmless.

For sitcoms and certain other types of entertainment, again there is no reason to say this is just for children, so there is no issue with them seeing Danny La Rue, or Dame Edna, or when my nephew aged 12 played Dorothy in a school production of The Wizard of Oz. These are fine (and generally hilarious).

I draw the line at the drag queen idea, though. They are fine in adult entertainment, comedy clubs, the gay scene etc - but we shouldn't be introducing young children to this any more than we should be telling them about, e.g. BDSM.

[moonshadow]

Sounds a lot like "let them win". It takes more courage to keep going.

Meh... more like "give someone enough rope and let them hang themselves".

It's actually similar to: if you'll only vote for a party that you 100% agree with, you'll never vote. At some point you cut your losses and say: I think it's important enough to support and accept some nutjobs are going to be there too.

Voting is private, protesting is public. I know I'm a regular chatty Kathy, but even I have opinions I don't share with anyone. Oh man, if I took the filter off my mouth and said the things that occasionally roll around in my head, I'd be canceled quicker than you could blink an eye.

[crfriend]

Oh man, if I took the filter off my mouth and said the things that occasionally roll around in my head, I'd be canceled quicker than you could blink an eye.

It all comes down to how well you defend your thesis. None of us a 100% "right" 100% of the time; we're human, we make mistakes. However, opinions should be shared and cogently debated -- else we'll never know how close to things we really are.

[moonshadow]

You know, there's a lot of talk about "sexualizing children" with regards to the transgender / drag / crossdresser issue.

It occurs to me that children have been HIGHLY sexualized for many, many decades now. We clad them in skimpy bikinis from toddler age, we applaud them when they enter beauty pageants, we have them split their legs wide open in middle school cheerleader squads.

None of this is puritan, it certainly isn't modest, and frankly would have been a GRAVE taboo just a hundred years ago....

So let's put this into perspective... it's perfectly acceptable to leer at sexy six year olds provided they are cis-gender, straight, "normal", and otherwise not engaging in any modern taboo.

Grown women can flaunt around all day in tight little bikinis, bikini tops that only cover the nipple. None of this is shielded from the eyes of youngsters. Grown men can flaunt around topless, shorts, etc. Let's face it, modern society is VERY VERY sexualized. So unless we're going to go full blown 1600's puritan, something doesn't seen right here.

It's amazing where we draw our various lines, what each of us view as socially acceptable. In most conversations I've had with people for my entire life, I have reached one conclusion, most individuals view their outlook on the world as the absolute moral pinnacle of what humanity should aspire to be.

We are an arrogant lot.

When will men start to conduct themselves as proper gentlemen, and when shall women start to conduct themselves as proper ladies?

Perhaps there would be less people exploring alternative gender roles if the two main ones were more virtuous. The "lady" and the "gentleman" are a dying breed- both used to mean something. Now both are just cultural garbage. America in particular is turning into one giant trailer park, congress is about to morph into spinoffs of Jerry Springer... I'm just waiting for the "DING" right after many of them speak and they start throwing punches. And we all find it so amusing... but it makes me want to vomit.

I weep for my species.

[crfriend]

We are an arrogant lot.

When will men start to conduct themselves as proper gentlemen, and when shall women start to conduct themselves as proper ladies?

To point one, I'd swap "arrogant" for "insolent". Arrogance implies that one can actually carry it off; the latter is merely posturing and bluff behaviour.

To point two, both "gentlemen" and "ladies" are largely extinct (or at least critically endangered) species, so don't really expect to find one in the wild. In the unlikely event you do, befriend them, for they need it more than ever.

[rode_kater]

Grown women can flaunt around all day in tight little bikinis, bikini tops that only cover the nipple. None of this is shielded from the eyes of youngsters. Grown men can flaunt around topless, shorts, etc. Let's face it, modern society is VERY VERY sexualized. So unless we're going to go full blown 1600's puritan, something doesn't seen right here.

This is really culturally dependant though. Breasts aren't inherently sexualised, some societies makes them so. Nudity isn't inherently sexual either. Wandering naked at a nude beach is not sexual in any way. There are cultures where women don't cover their breasts at all. Free the nipple!

I consider people who consider breasts to be inherently sexual in the same category as those in some middle eastern countries who consider a women showing an ankle sexual. Sure, people are going to dress up to flaunt their what they consider their best features. Doesn't make it sexual though. Considering it sexual is just another way to control women.

The only way (IMO) to solve this is things like "free the nipple" so it becomes more normal. And demonstrating it's no big deal. Just about everyone got up close and personal with a pair a breasts when they were young and it was not a traumatic experience. We shouldn't make it one.

[moonshadow]

Grown women can flaunt around all day in tight little bikinis, bikini tops that only cover the nipple. None of this is shielded from the eyes of youngsters. Grown men can flaunt around topless, shorts, etc. Let's face it, modern society is VERY VERY sexualized. So unless we're going to go full blown 1600's puritan, something doesn't seen right here.

This is really culturally dependant though.

Yes, and in the subject culture, scantily clad women are sexualized. If you don't think so, then I challenge you to post a photo of a nude woman on this thread right now... and NO STATUES or "works of art".. no just pull something off a soft porn site and post it, see how long it stands. It won't. Why? Because it is considered sexual and out of bounds for a "family friendly" website.

The overall point being, is that all this has little to nothing to do with "sexualizing children", it has everything to do with prejudice against certain people who don certain articles of clothing, in other words, men who are not staying in their lane.

I see no dollar bills hanging out of Dee's bra or panties... in fact, I don't even see the panties at all. Look, I get where many are coming from here, yes the stereotype of the "Drag Queen" is sexual, but then again, so is everything it seems. I'm just saying... the rules we are applying to what's "acceptable" could theoretically send us back to the late 16th century New England with the Puritans.

I mean, seriously, imagine for a moment a society where any and every possible thing that could possibly be deemed "sexual" in nature based on arbitrary opinion alone was suddenly banned out of existence... what would be left?

[rode_kater]

I mean, seriously, imagine for a moment a society where any and every possible thing that could possibly be deemed "sexual" in nature based on arbitrary opinion alone was suddenly banned out of existence... what would be left?

Then you get all women wearing a burqa. Some parts of the world are actually like this, we don't need to imagine, we can see. Look at Iran, where simply showing hair can apparently drive men crazy.

Of course, almost nothing about men can ever be considered sexual, so they get a free pass.

This must be resisted and the only way to do that is by people doing it. If you want to break the idea the drag is inherently sexual, then you need something like these events so show that it's possible. Sure, there are going to be people complaining, but that's why they're called "conservatives" (or more accurately "reactionaries").

Just like the only way to get people off the idea that men wearing skirts are gay, is by actually wearing them in normal everyday situations and doing obviously not-gay things.