skirtcafe.org

Sinned wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:58 pm Well said, UA, those wanting to discuss this further there are other forums for it.

Thanks Dennis

Uncle Al

I agree with you and Dennis, UA.

I’m happy to allow the odd digression, but this is - uniquely - a place for guys to wear skirts etc WITHOUT looking like women. I have no problems with those who wish to go down that avenue - but it’s not what this particular forum is about.

Ray

Ray wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:40 pm I’m happy to allow the odd digression, but this is - uniquely - a place for guys to wear skirts etc WITHOUT looking like women. I have no problems with those who wish to go down that avenue - but it’s not what this particular forum is about.

Well said! I have said almost those exact words on my own "man in a dress" blog, and I am surprised the moderators let this discussion run on as long as it has considering the subject line that violates everything we are about here.

My own six-decade journey has been fraught with confusion about my identity, but in the end I discovered that I truly love being a man, having the dangly bits, and being with a woman who puts up with my daft clothing choices. So I can't fault those who are still struggling on the road to understanding who they are, or have already reached the conclusion that they wish to identify more closely with the fairer sex even part-time.. but as my neighbours here in the US "deep south" would say, that ain't me. A cross-dressing website would probably serve them better in terms of support, encouragement, and advice. We can't very well provide any useful insights on tucking and body hair removal when we embrace those very traits that others may wich to conceal, right?

Ralph wrote: ↑Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:41 am My own six-decade journey has been fraught with confusion about my identity,

As have my two scores. The pages are still being written however and the ink is hardly dry.

Do I wish I were born a female? Yes, but as I often say, "wish in one hand, sh!t in the other and see which fills up faster..."

I have to play the cards I was dealt.

However I suppose I am fortunate to live in a society and an era in time which I'm allowed to explore and express my inner femininity, and it goes much deeper than the clothes I wear. The only real negative consequence of this is occasional negative blowback from those with closed and intolerant minds who lack the ability to mind their own business. Thankfully they don't have the power or authority to stop me (so far...).

As for gender? I am what I am. I don't write the rules.

An occasional death always tends to plunge my mind into the purpose of our lives, it gives me pause and prompts my reflection on how short our time is on this plane of existence.

We start from zero and will eventually return to zero full circle. It is what we experience along the circumference that makes it all count.

On second thought...

I am what I am, I don't have time for the rules!

Yeh I think this thread has run its course. Mostly constructive answers, always exceptions. Let it lie guys.

Ray wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:40 pm I agree with you and Dennis, UA.

I’m happy to allow the odd digression, but this is - uniquely - a place for guys to wear skirts etc WITHOUT looking like women. I have no problems with those who wish to go down that avenue - but it’s not what this particular forum is about.

Ray

The forum is about men wearing skirts for whatever reason, including those who prefer to present as a woman, but it is not about wanting to look like a woman.  I would be very sorry if this forum excluded people like me who wear skirts and also like being taken for a woman - but it is perfectly correct that we should confine the majority of our postings here to just the skirts themselves and be careful not to imply that our particular reasons for this choice are in any way applicable to other members.

We should all be free to discuss the reasons for our choices, but in a way which is sensitive to the discomfort which some other members may feel if they have been the victims of incorrect associations in the past

I am struggling to understand why any man would want to "present as a woman". Can anybody enlighten me?

Stu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:52 pm I am struggling to understand why any man would want to "present as a woman". Can anybody enlighten me?

There are some of us, a very few, who feel more comfortable in life as a woman rather than as a man.  Our bodies don't meet our own, and other people's, expectations, so we use clothing and other visual indicators instead; presenting as a woman is our way of signalling how we would like to be treated by the people we meet.

If you classify 'man' as someone assigned male at birth, you would see a 'man' presenting as a woman, but if you could base your definition on how we feel, you would see us as women presenting as women (but unfortunately mis-classified by society on the basis of association with something we have no control over).

A lot of transwomen wear trousers nowadays, but even if I weren't trans, I would still prefer skirts.

presenting as a woman is our way of signalling how we would like to be treated by the people we meet.

OK. Thanks.

So - and forgive my ignorance - are you trying to deceive people into believing you are a woman? And how are you treated differently by people you meet when you present as a woman as opposed to how you are treated when you are when you present as a man?

I am genuinely trying to get my head around this.

Stu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:46 pm

presenting as a woman is our way of signalling how we would like to be treated by the people we meet.

OK. Thanks.

So - and forgive my ignorance - are you trying to deceive people into believing you are a woman?

The only 'deception' involves my birth certificate and some parts of my body - and neither of those should be any concern of the people I interact with during my daily life.  If I were to go for complete transition, the last remaining 'male' bits would be my chromosomes and they are even less relevant to everyday life.  Trying to pass as a man has been my real deception in life, it is such a relief now that I no longer have to do that.

And how are you treated differently by people you meet when you present as a woman as opposed to how you are treated when you are when you present as a man?

It's easier to explain how they treated me when they saw me as a man: they were wary and regarded me as a threat.  Until I presented as a woman I had no idea how strong this was; it came as a great shock to me the first time it didn't happen.  

Other changes:
Women starting conversations with me so easily, without any of the suspicion or awkwardness I had previously encountered.  My (female) bank manager catching hold of my arm in a friendly gesture during a consultation.  Women in conversation with each other not suddenly drying up when I came within earshot - and then even including me in the conversations (some of which were quite intimate in a way which men would never discuss with each other, let alone with women they hardly knew).  A feeling of camaraderie and cooperation with much less competitiveness and rivalry in social interactions. 

...and in interactions with men: Mansplaining.   Yuk!  The things women have to put up with!

pelmut wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:17 pm ...and in interactions with men: Mansplaining.   Yuk!  The things women have to put up with!

Thanks for that.

Have you ever seen Norah Vincent's experience of passing as a man? Different perspective to yours, but worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip7kP_dd6LU

So, if you are much more comfortable posing as a woman then why not just go all the way? You say that your main deception has been trying to pass as a man. Simples, no more deceptions.

For the last time can we just let this thread lie? I started it to get views on the matter across our user base, but in part to show how far we have come and how increasingly viable it is to wear skirts as a man. This may not have been the case decades ago but is a mark of progress made. Never predicted it would go this long far less snipe language like "educate yourself". Its gone increasingly in a direction on transgenderism that stands against even the Freestyle section.

I'm sorry you are upset by the direction the thread is going, so I have started a continuation of it in a more appropriate place.  I am quite happy to continue to answer questions on the subject as I feel it may helpful to others and might help to dispel some of the untruths and prejudices recently spread by the media.

Don't drop a spoon or clank a bowl of you don't want to dip ice cream for everyone...