Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

General discussion of skirt and kilt-based fashion for men, and stuff that goes with skirts and kilts.
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Sinned
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Sinned »

I was reading an article on the current trend to gender fluidity in fashion. The url is as follows: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/sty ... li=BBoPOOm.

I liked the last two paragraphs which show that there is perhaps a slow change happening. "All this marks an exciting step for the British fashion industry, one that forces the consumer to ask some key questions, like what makes an item suited to a particular gender in the first place? Why should a specific type of garment be marketed towards women, and not men, or non-binary people? And, crucially, is the world ready to embrace gender fluidity on a larger sartorial scale?

One would hope so, though recent commentary – think conservative commentator Candace Owens calling to “bring back manly men” after seeing Styles in that dress – may suggest we still have a bit of a way to go. Still, this season at LFW shows that progress is afoot, and the industry is making waves to be more inclusive in a way that arguably offers designers more room for innovation and creativity. Isn’t that what fashion is supposed to be about in the first place?"
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

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Sinned wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:21 pm
Still, this season at LFW shows that progress is afoot, and the industry is making waves to be more inclusive in a way that arguably offers designers more room for innovation and creativity. Isn’t that what fashion is supposed to be about in the first place?"
Dennis, exactly and very true, even in the most absurd catwalk creations.
Love or loathe, nothing matters except the potential for change and wider choice across the whole clothing scene.
Steve.
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Sinned
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

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The important aspect to me is that maybe fashion designers may at last be waking up to a potentially huge market that is ripe for opening up with just the right encouragement and marketing. I do believe that if men's skirts were marketed consistently and seriously using celebrity endorsement and clever advertising, as much as they do conventionally, then we will see more men in skirts. I hope that is being recognised, instead of treating not just as a niche or novelty product. The day I see skirts marketed at men in our local ASDA is the day my wife will walk out with me wearing a skirt.
I believe in offering every assistance short of actual help but then mainly just want to be left to be myself in all my difference and uniqueness.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Stu »

Sinned wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:24 pm
I do believe that if men's skirts were marketed consistently and seriously using celebrity endorsement and clever advertising, as much as they do conventionally, then we will see more men in skirts. I hope that is being recognised, instead of treating not just as a niche or novelty product. The day I see skirts marketed at men in our local ASDA is the day my wife will walk out with me wearing a skirt.
I agree. The starting point in my opinion is not something complicated or fancy - and it should not involve making some massive effort to differentiate it as an exclusively male garment. Some simple designs like straight or A-line denim, or a basic fabric like the types used for tailoring, would be perfectly fine. One alternative would be for them to make and market such garments unisex, styled and sized for that, and modelled by both sexes.

Will that happen any time soon? I doubt it, to be honest. We have made some progress over the past 20-years and there have been flashes of hope, yet the taboo persists. Men wear trousers, not skirts - that's the norm and we shouldn't imagine that's about to change or we will be disappointed.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Stevej180 »

Stu wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:56 pm

Will that happen any time soon? I doubt it, to be honest. We have made some progress over the past 20-years and there have been flashes of hope, yet the taboo persists. Men wear trousers, not skirts - that's the norm and we shouldn't imagine that's about to change or we will be disappointed.
Sigh. Yes, I sometimes feel that I was born 50 years too early...
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by KenCT »

I'm with Stu - I would be happy to see the skirt accepted as a unisex garment, especially the more conservative expressions of the style: solid colors or traditional patterns like houndstooth, herringbone, plaid, pinstripes; classic a-line and pencil styles; denim, corduroy, twill, suiting fabrics. Those who wish to project a more feminine look would still have many choices in brighter colors, more decorative patterns (floral, abstract, paisley, and other prints), and a wider range of fabrics - I think those would continue to be viewed as feminine for a long time to come.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

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Oh good Lord! Would all of you please get out of your own way, stop ruminating and stressing about what the fashion industry could do to make it more comfortable for you to go out in public dressed as you please and JUST DO IT!

I admit and agree wholeheartedly that wearing your womenswear publicly is scary as hell and the easiest thing to do is come up with excuses not to. Been there, done that. But the more public I am with my preferences, the happier I become.

So let me tell you what is possible in this age of the Covid-19 pandemic, political and social turmoil and impossible to ignore signs that extremists are becoming bolder and more violent. Seven months ago I interviewed for my current job via Zoom with my longish hair, feminine jewelry, wearing a silk blouse and skirt. Okay, the skirt wasn't visible. But not only were my skirts and dresses quite visible when I wore them to work, but within a week of my starting our female Executive Director greeted me one morning with, "You have the best clothes!"

This weekend, we are having our annual fundraiser via Zoom. As most such events are, in person they're a dress-up occasion. As we all know, working from home has all but made dressing up an anachronism. When the idle chatter suggested the same fate was going to befall our Gala, I suggested, via our chat line, that we dress up nonetheless. I went so far as to write, "Give me formal wear or give me death!"

Not only have my colleagues gone along with me on that (I'm one of two token males.), but at our virtual staff meeting a couple days ago our Fearless Leader (She really is.) said, "And of course we're all dying to see what David's going to wear" (No pressure there!)

If I can do all and any number of other members of this forum can dress the way they do for work, so can you ... NOW. TODAY! Stop waiting for the Fashion Police to give you a green light; they're never going to do it.

However, about the time enough men walk into dress stores or Women's Departments in department stores to try on and buy outfits, the fashion industry will respond. Because as Yves Saint Laurent said, "Fashion is a business," and business caters to demand.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by STEVIE »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:56 am
Oh good Lord! Would all of you please get out of your own way, stop ruminating and stressing about what the fashion industry could do to make it more comfortable for you to go out in public dressed as you please and JUST DO IT!
On this point it seems appropriate to share that after an almost exact year of "house arrest", I will return to the office on Monday.
Mentally, that is going to do me a power of good.
What I may wear will be given some thought but one thing is without question.
Trousers will not come into the equation. If I did I reckon that my colleagues would reckon that I had really flipped in my enforced absence.
Dave and I may not share the same dress sense but we concur on this point, DO IT.
Remember that if you can't or won't, nobody will do it for you.
As for Monday, that will be a voyage of discovery all by itself.
Steve.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Faldaguy »

by STEVIE » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:33 am

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:56 am
Oh good Lord! Would all of you please get out of your own way, stop ruminating and stressing about what the fashion industry could do to make it more comfortable for you to go out in public dressed as you please and JUST DO IT!
On this point it seems appropriate to share that after an almost exact year of "house arrest", I will return to the office on Monday.
Mentally, that is going to do me a power of good.
What I may wear will be given some thought but one thing is without question.
Trousers will not come into the equation. If I did I reckon that my colleagues would reckon that I had really flipped in my enforced absence.
Dave and I may not share the same dress sense but we concur on this point, DO IT.
Remember that if you can't or won't, nobody will do it for you...

...As for Monday, that will be a voyage of discovery all by itself.
Steve.
And may it be a glorious one with grand memories for embarking on the voyage of self. Have fun Stevie.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by JeffB1959 »

Pdxfashionpioneer wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:56 am
Oh good Lord! Would all of you please get out of your own way, stop ruminating and stressing about what the fashion industry could do to make it more comfortable for you to go out in public dressed as you please and JUST DO IT!

I admit and agree wholeheartedly that wearing your womenswear publicly is scary as hell and the easiest thing to do is come up with excuses not to. Been there, done that. But the more public I am with my preferences, the happier I become.

So let me tell you what is possible in this age of the Covid-19 pandemic, political and social turmoil and impossible to ignore signs that extremists are becoming bolder and more violent. Seven months ago I interviewed for my current job via Zoom with my longish hair, feminine jewelry, wearing a silk blouse and skirt. Okay, the skirt wasn't visible. But not only were my skirts and dresses quite visible when I wore them to work, but within a week of my starting our female Executive Director greeted me one morning with, "You have the best clothes!"

This weekend, we are having our annual fundraiser via Zoom. As most such events are, in person they're a dress-up occasion. As we all know, working from home has all but made dressing up an anachronism. When the idle chatter suggested the same fate was going to befall our Gala, I suggested, via our chat line, that we dress up nonetheless. I went so far as to write, "Give me formal wear or give me death!"

Not only have my colleagues gone along with me on that (I'm one of two token males.), but at our virtual staff meeting a couple days ago our Fearless Leader (She really is.) said, "And of course we're all dying to see what David's going to wear" (No pressure there!)

If I can do all and any number of other members of this forum can dress the way they do for work, so can you ... NOW. TODAY! Stop waiting for the Fashion Police to give you a green light; they're never going to do it.

However, about the time enough men walk into dress stores or Women's Departments in department stores to try on and buy outfits, the fashion industry will respond. Because as Yves Saint Laurent said, "Fashion is a business," and business caters to demand.
In short....BRILLIANT! Couldn't have said it better myself! And I follow your mantra whenever I can!
I don't want to LOOK like a woman, I just want to DRESS like a woman.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Pdxfashionpioneer »

Thank you Jeff and Stevie. You really made me smile.
David, the PDX Fashion Pioneer

Social norms aren't changed by Congress or Parliament; they're changed by a sufficient number of people ignoring the existing ones and publicly practicing new ones.
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Re: Sexual Fetish or Gender Expression?

Post by Gusto10 »

Stevej180: an interesting thread you started up. As to how and why someone comes to wear a skirt/kilt can have many reasons. Interest from ones youth. e.g having to wear a skirt or dress at a school play; temped by ones partner; a dare game with friends; whatever. Getting to acceptence first of all by yourselves, secondly by your partner/ family is a road by itself. For example, one thing Moonshadow didn't mention in his open reply, is the support by ones spouse, for Moon being Jenn. Such is a major asset.
When living alone things might be easier as you don't have to take into consideration the openness of others in the household, or in worst case scenerio, a partner who is first promoting it and than will try to distruct you mentally for doing what was required (as was my case; she became my ex using that argument but is no longer with us).
The skirt as male attire in the (far) past has been mentioned often enough, no need to repeat such. The comfort has undergone a similar fate. I guess all members of the SC have their history which brought them to skirtwearing and join this community. Still many are (mostly) indoor skirtwearers, others are more bold.
It was mentioned that skirt designed for men might help to get more men into skirting without skirting the issue. Not everybody can wear attire destined for women. Hence kilts are indeed the thing to go for. The availability of course is an issue by itself. Just a thought, if mainstream stores would have for example (utility) kilts in their collection, the threshold might become lower. What surpised me, is that for example https://www.luisaviaroma.com/en-fr/shop ... =_gm_i1_c2, items like these presented here are often enough gone within a minimum of time, but still you hardly see them in the streets.
Each of us has his own story, but at the same time we all support the others by providing a reading eye and maybe writing fingers. You are not alone, you don't need an excuse for something which is historically correct, a supporting spouse is god-sent. Everybody will do it in his own fashion and at his own time figuring out what suits him and his companions best.
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