How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

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Big and Bashful
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Big and Bashful »

Ray wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 10:00 pm
“Momentary lapse of reason”....Pink Floyd?
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Ray »

What on Earth is going on in the US?

Widespread racism, rioting, no social distancing - and now a government threatening to use armies against its people. For the first time, I can start to understand the suspiciousness of US citizens towards their government.

Sad to see. How did it come to this? Clergy tear gassed, Australian reporters assaulted....and at its root, a black man murdered by the police.

I hope this calms down - but along with that crazy woman (Amy Cooper) in Central Park, it does suggest that there’s a real problem with race in the US - more so than Europe (still not a paragon of virtue) and that this is boiling over.

I’d welcome your thoughts on this one. I thought this might be the right thread to post this.

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Happy-N-Skirts »

I just read the attorney general ordered military force on his own initiative before Trump told him to. Good Boy !!!!

I don't know whether I hate this one worse than LBJ and the Vietnam thing. Very close.

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by crfriend »

Happy-N-Skirts wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:05 pm
I just read the attorney general ordered military force on his own initiative before Trump told him to. Good Boy !!!!
I'm not sure that the Attorney General has the constitutional power to do that. Not that the USA is operating under its Constitution any longer...

There are a lot of factors in play this time 'round that are running in concert with one another, and that makes it all the more dangerous.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Shilo »

This is more concerning than the covid thing. Massive unemployment, lockdown, long hot summer ahead, a president who has promoted division amongst his own people and what appears to be clear cut police brutality leading to death. Finally Trump prepared to do whatever it takes to get another term.
Recipe for a perfect storm.
I don’t know why there are protests about it in the UK. you don’t need us poking the hornets 🐝 nest.
I really hope I’m wrong.
:roll:

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by trainspotter48 »

I certainly hope the current situation doesn't develop any further.
It's already reminiscent of events in Paris in the 1790s, and Petrograd in 1917.
Civil war is always ugly!

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Sinned »

The news reports are really alarming even though such "demonstrations" have happened before. Trump seems to me really out of his depth on this one. Even George W showed more sense and wisdom in dealing with his crises. He did make mistakes but everything Trump does and says just seems to inflame the situation. His photo op was typical of him - ill thought out and designed to upset. It's going to be a long few months until November. But then I'm just an ignorant Brit and should really shut up.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by crfriend »

Sinned wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:24 pm
But then I'm just an ignorant Brit and should really shut up.
Everyone here is welcome in this conversation, irrespective of nationality, because at this point in time the situation threatens international security.

I am rather assiduously trying to stay out of the fray, but it's worth making the points that institutional racism has been rampant in the USA since the mid 1800s, the military has been called out against the citizenry more than once before -- with lethal results, and the entire social structure has been under intense pressure for going on 40 years and recent events have only amplified that. So, yes, it's a pressure-cooker that's several PSI above its safety limits at the moment.

My main hope is that what happens here does not destroy the rest of the world.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Shilo »

I notice from news reports that W’s old speech writer has turned on Trump The more pressure he gets the more he lashes out at anyone he thinks can be blamed apart from him. Has he thought that the demonstrations may be a Chinese plot to undermine the USA 😂👏🏾
:roll:

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by pelmut »

crfriend wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:19 pm
...it's worth making the points that institutional racism has been rampant in the USA since the mid 1800s,
As another Brit, who only hears things about the U.S. third-hand, I was taken aback when a customer who was visiting from the U.S. said how surprised he had been when he began to notice that everyday racism seemed to be lacking in the U.K.  I'm sure if he had been in a rowdy pub in certain cities or at some football matches he might have thought differently, but his comment was that black people were just people in the U.K. and it made him realise how different things were in the U.S.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Sinned »

I read the following article a few days ago:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... story.html.

I don't know the standing of the Washington Post in terms of bias but if only part of it is true then it certainly is disturbing. Is it true that Trump has that sort of power without any check on whether the intervention is warranted? If so then you should be worried. Fortunately we don't have the depth of racism that you have. Yes we had it in spades in the past and have it in football, for instance, but we have campaigns to stamp it out and socially it is discouraged. The image that we get of your average policeman as an overweight, bigoted white man with a trigger happy finger is not one I would be comfortable with. I hope that this stereotype is not true. Our police don't carry firearms - baton, pepper spray, body armour, yes. The use of an armed police presence has to be authorised. But then my brushes with the law are few and far between so what do I know.

As I said, the countdown to November is going to be a long one irrespective of the number of days. I sincerely hope that he isn't elected. I was all for BoJo when he was elected and now I'm not so sure. Maybe both of our countries have the leaders that we deserve.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by moonshadow »

Sinned wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:53 pm
I don't know the standing of the Washington Post in terms of bias
In my assessment, WP generally seems to align with facts for the most part, however they are owned by Jeff Bezos who is always at odds with Trump, thus their rhetoric is left leaning, so I advise some level of fact checking where they are concerned.

In other words, facts yes.. (usually)... but they tend to "hype it up" in my opinion so be aware.
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Fred in Skirts »

Sinned wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:53 pm
The image that we get of your average policeman as an overweight, bigoted white man with a trigger happy finger is not one I would be comfortable with. I hope that this stereotype is not true. Our police don't carry firearms - baton, pepper spray, body armour, yes. The use of an armed police presence has to be authorised. But then my brushes with the law are few and far between so what do I know.
Dennis, I am happy to be able to tell you that that image is not the real picture.. I have been around the police for most of my life, my father was an officer in Pennsylvania and I have been around cops and enjoyed the friendship of many in my lifetime.
And yes there are bad cops but thank goodness they are really few and far between, despite what the news media portray. The Chief of Police in my town has weeded out any officer that does not live up to the proper image and deportment. All are highly trained and must show respect to all citizens. Bias when seen is swiftly curtailed, and the offending officer is either retrained or sacked depending on the circumstances.

Fred
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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by Shilo »

My experience of police in USA, admittedly limited, has always been favourable. Especially in NYC AS a middle aged ( ha ha) , middle class, English, white guy they may look at me differently.
:roll:

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Re: How Did the Country (USA) that Could Do Anything Turn Into One That Can't Do Anything

Post by new2skirts »

Shilo wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:21 am
This is more concerning than the covid thing. Massive unemployment, lockdown, long hot summer ahead, a president who has promoted division amongst his own people and what appears to be clear cut police brutality leading to death. Finally Trump prepared to do whatever it takes to get another term.
Recipe for a perfect storm.
I don’t know why there are protests about it in the UK. you don’t need us poking the hornets 🐝 nest.
I really hope I’m wrong.
The protests in the UK are becsuse black people had an affinity to George Floyd, because the same issues exist, to a much lesser degree. You are twice as likely to be arrested or face stop and search as a black man in London, any form of reply or rebuttal is brushed off as "playing the Race Card", when you may not have even mentioned Race. Xenophobic remarks since Brexit increased, and now there is also the same unstable mix of people laid off work, or facing an uncertain future after the Lockdown overreaction for the past 10 weeks.

Millennials do not focus on race as much as Baby Boomers it seems, hence large amounts of young white people also joining in the protests over treatment of black people in the UK. Things may not be as extreme, but there has always been a racist undercurrent of some form in the UK.

Brexit was to "stop foreigners taking UK jobs" as well as not wanting to bail out poorer members of the EU, hence the UK decision to leave. Triggered by mass migration. So the focus has shifted to others, such as from Eastern Europe rather than the typical "target" of BAME (Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic).

The sad incident of George Floyd's death was clearly seen on camera, which shocked the world. Though I think there has always been that issue, in a lot of countries apart from the UK and US.

London Riots in 2011 was over a similar issue, where towns and cities burned for 4 days, though mainly it was an excuse for blatant looting by bored kids, there were politicians on vacation so it wasn't addressed swiftly.

Those are just my views as a black man, and just an observation.
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