skirtcafe.org

Found this on facebook - following a grocery delivery by a very hot delivery man during this summer's heatwave. Suggestion was made that the men could wear skirts (such as the train trivers in Sweden) if they disallowed shorts but the reply was a bit depressing from their "Customer Care" team.

It seems that Tesco are more concerned in "looking professional" rather than comfort for their employees.

https://www.facebook.com/tesco/posts/550452275013908

That was an evasive reply from Tesco. They clearly know there's an equality issue.

Stu

I concur that the reply was a bit evasive, but I also appreciate companies' worries about appearance and reputation. Good reputations are difficult for companies to establish, and are remarkably easy to lose -- and much of that comes down to how customers perceive the employees of those companies. That's why getting the workplace to accept blokes wearing skirts is going to be an incredibly long uphill slog -- and why it's important for those who are pushing for that acceptance to present as professional an appearance as possible, to the point of "overdressing" at times.

Several companies here in the US have shorts options for guys during the summer months, notably UPS and the US Postal Service, and nobody bats an eyelash. The gals in the Postal Service have the option of skirts, but few seem to take that option; I do not know what the reaction would be if a man tried to take that path.

I've worked for companies that have had dress codes and I've worked for companies that had no clue about business attire. In looking at both categories, I believe I actually prefer the former as it keeps outright slovenliness down to a minimum. Pyjamas and flip-flops are not appropriate in the workplace. However, a nicely tailored skirted suit -- even on a guy -- is; but, it takes open-mindedness on the part of all involved and that's sometimes hard to come by.

As a major commercial concern, Tesco is absolutely concerned about it's corporate image as projected by it's employees.
The reply, to me, seemed to be the "party line" rather than a considered response to the question.
If Tesco thought for one moment that it'd add a point to it's margins, the guys would be in skirts so fast even footwear wouldn't be an issue.
Having done "business dress" skirted for almost a year now, I'd agree with CR Friend, we need to be more than equal.
It's not enough to "chuck" on a skirt. I know that I think a hell of a lot more about what's "going on" tomorrow than I'd ever have done in trousers. I'm also very careful to be selective in terms of colour and design, always erring to the "conservative".
I can't say that all my colleagues approve of my attire but I still do my job best in a skirt and I still like to be told that I look "odd" in trousers.
I can't talk about general acceptance or changing the world but I know that I've made a few people contemplate a guy in skirts and maybe, just maybe that will make it a wee bit easier for the next one who comes along.
Steve.

That's why you shouldn't work for companies whose customers are narrow minded bigots. It is the perfect excuse to make employees look like a personal army. If your work is what matters, dresscodes shouldn't apply here, beyond hygiene matters. Off course in personal contact with potential customers there should be a non-restrictive semi formal dresscode. That means they cannot make a pengu out of you, if you prefer skirts.

skirtilator wrote:That's why you shouldn't work for companies whose customers are narrow minded bigots.

The problem here is that we frequently don't have a-priori knowledge of what a company's customers are before we hire on. Had I know what my last job was going to ultimately become I would never have signed on 12 years ago!

If your work is what matters, dresscodes shouldn't apply here, beyond hygiene matters.

I would add that one's dress should also not be distracting or otherwise inappropriate for the setting (e.g. my comments on beachwear at the office).

Off course in personal contact with potential customers there should be a non-restrictive semi formal dresscode. That means they cannot make a pengu out of you, if you prefer skirts.

In this aspect I completely agree, but in many cases the sorts of environments that one would likely interact with prospective or potential customers are ones that have razor-thin profit-margins and ones that a potential customer (or even a long-term one) may turn away from the company for any number of reasons, only one of which might be a disagreement with an employee over dress.

In most cases I am an ardent supporter of the rights of the individual worker; however, in matters like this I can -- and sometimes do -- lean quite a bit in the other direction as I understand precisely how hard it is for a company to project a unified and solid image. A good reputation in business is very hard to gain, and sometimes trivially easy to lose.

I worked for a company for 9 years that I now think would have accepting me wearing a skirt to work but I didn't have that frame of mind then. It was a telephone bonk and they did a lot of things that were so far left of centre that it was probably nearly vertical. Of course they were bought just before I joined by another really, really big bonk. Over the years that I was there the really, really big bonk changed it, brought in their own people and ruined the atmosphere there. So what I joined became somewhere that wasn't acceptable to me and I accepted redundancy and have lost out financially ever since. But I don't really regret it as I have more peace of mind now and certainly a lot less stress now. So like crfrnd I wasn't sorry to leave. But yes, the bigger the company is the more they have to lose due to someone not displaying the right image and the more difficult it is to change their mind.

I wonder what Walmart/ASDA think about the Walmartians sites?

A suit and/or tie is NEVER acceptable attire.

In whose opinion, Zorba?

In my opinion, it can be perfectly acceptable attire, and in the eyes of many of my clients, it's practically compulsory.

The idea is not to make suits & ties unacceptable; it's to make skirts part of what is accepted.

I actually agree with Ry on this including his comment on making the skirt acceptable instead of trousers. A collar that is not tight to restrict blood flow and interfere with breathing should present no problem to wearing a tie. I do think that a shirt and tie looks smart when in conjunction with the rest of the assemble being smart. Shirt and tie can actually go well with a smart skirt and I have a white pleated skirt that looks really good with the shirt, tie and jacket. I wouldn't wear a tie every day ( and always at an interview or formal business occasion ) but with the right outfit then why not?

Ray wrote:The idea is not to make suits & ties unacceptable; it's to make skirts part of what is accepted.

In a nutshell, this sums it up.

I know that Zorba detests suits and ties, and that's fine -- he doesn't have the need to wear them. However, in certain circles it's pretty much the male standard, especially formal situations like job-interviews and where an outwardly-professional look is needed (this, of course, panders to the vast plodding herd, and not the forward-thinkers). So, to get to the point, at issue is not to try and turn the whole suit/tie look on its head, it's to get smart-looking skirts accepted on men as part of the rig.

In the unlikely event that I get questioned about my skirt-wearing in the job-search process I'll not lie about it for I have no reason to; I'm proud of it, in fact, and when so attired try to "punch a little higher than my weight" in terms of making a rig look good. Which is more appropriate for a professional office situation: a bloke in a well-fitting skirt-suit (either with or without a tie) or a woman in clam-diggers, T-shirt, and flip-flops? Which would you rather interact with in such a setting?

crfriend wrote: However, in certain circles it's pretty much the male standard...

This, THIS, is what needs to be changed. And it is, albeit very slowly. Its real easy to help along, just "take the vow" and NEVER wear them again!

Zorba wrote:

crfriend wrote: However, in certain circles it's pretty much the male standard...

This, THIS, is what needs to be changed. And it is, albeit very slowly. Its real easy to help along, just "take the vow" and NEVER wear them again!

It is not that easy. I have a mortgage to pay, a family to feed and a job that requires me to meet customers regularly; never wearing a tie would rapidly impact on my work, or at least on others perception of it. It does not matter whether this is right or wrong; that is how it is.

At another level; I actually enjoy wearing a well made suit. A carefully selected shirt and tie enhance the look and the experience. I would not willingly give up the option of a suit and tie even if I could.

Have fun,


Ian.

Again I agree with mlfmrg. It's a bit like me saying that we should never wear trousers ( of any description ) again. For some of you that's your aim and I respect you for it but I have never said that I want to give up the bifucates entirely because they have the advantage in some situations. I wouldn't think of working up a ladder or scrabbling under a car in a skirt. Apart from having MOH who's a bit awkward ( being tactful here ) I have to work and get along with others that I do care about for whom skirt wearing is a bit left field. So I push the envelope wherever I can. I was brought up in an era where a tie was required wearing and a shirt and tie does look smart and as has been said is de rigeur for a lot of formal occasions. So for me changing the status quo so that the acceptance of a skirt with shirt, tie and jacket is a worthwhile aim, progressive and if achieved a giant leap for skirt wearing. MY attitude at the moment is that attire should be chosen to achieve an overall look irrespective of which side of the aisle they come from or where in the store they were displayed. I am much freer in my choice than I was even six months ago.