skirtcafe.org

Recently something has happened, directly related to my having to live with my mother, and being unemployed.

I have come to the decision to sell my 1968 Mustang. I just cannot fathom being able to repair the rust damaged body any time soon. I love the machine, but I also want it to be loved and cared for, something I cannot provide this point in my life.

Another position I am kinda being forced into is giving up my personal identity. I bemoaned this probability when I announced I was having to move in with mother. This move indeed curtailed my skirt wearing. Well now it has moved on to my Gothic styles, as well as my leggings.

This was due to my mother's reactions to a really nice guitar I got, with money I had put aside for the purpose. I had been using my brother's Les Paul which he wanted back, and I wanted a unique instrument...which this is http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww10 ... nister.jpg

Well it really wasn't the money that was the issue. It was the Gothic look. She started flying off the handle about how Goths go into high schools and shoot students and teachers.

Yea, that's right, she still thinks those stinking idiots of Columbine were Goth, despite the report 10 years later that said both law enforcement, and the media messed up, and used the Goth community as a scape goat. Those Twits had red shoe laces running through their boots, had Swastikas on their bodies, and were wearing dark GRAY dusters. This was neo Nazi crap.

Despite this, my mother still thinks that Goths are murderers. Which is ironic cause looking at the headlines there is only one heinous crime connected with my black clad brethren, and that was the headlines following Columbine. All other heinous crimes carried out by people fitting the Gang Banger, or Red Neck category. There is even a law enforcement officer who has come right out and said he prefers dealing with groups of goths because often they are nicer to deal with, and usually are in trouble for under age drinking, and pot. (DUH).

Well, despite this, I am having to stop wearing darker colors, and I think my leggings. Or get kicked out.

I just don't think that is fair. It is not my fault I lost my job. It is not my fault greedy bastards drove this country into recession, yet I am having to live as if it was my fault. As if I brought it upon myself. I spent all day yesterday in Blue Jeans a T-shirt, and my god I felt old.

I know I am in my mid 30s, but I hate to give up something I like...just like the Mustang. I may be in my mid 30s, but my mind is that of a 28 year old, and I hope it remains that way, into my 90s. What was that song George Burns sang? Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you, if your young at heart. Well that's me, and I like it this way.

Then again, maybe I am just pathetic.

I feel I am losing my identity, and becoming one of the masses.

Scenes from Pink Floyd The Wall are running through my mind.

Pythos,

I'm not a guitarist by any means, but the pics of the two guitars
are great What AMP & Spkrs do you use with it
I'd bet my old '60-'61 T-1 Combo would fit right in with them

Too bad we're not closer together otherwise I'd reserve a day for
a full and complete JAM Session

What fun that would be

I don't remember what part of the U.S. you're located, but if you
should decide to visit the DFW area, let me know. There are many
locations for musical gigs in the Metroplex. With about 5-6 million
people in a 2 county area, you'd fit right in.

Uncle Al


BTW-You're about the same age as my oldest son. He'll be 36 in
December, and is the father of our two grandsons. Also, he is a
computer artist and helped create the Video Game - Ghostbusters.

Pythos, I've resisted answering any of your diatribes, but you really need to rethink your whole stew of ethnic fixations and maybe come to the conclusion that we are ALL humans and we are ALL fighting the rising of the tide. Just because one man was born in Georgia, that in itself does not make him a "redneck". Actually, I doubt you even know what a real redneck is.It's a farmer...who gets a red neck from bending over in the sun pulling weeds away from his crops. I can think of one Georgia born resident that's definitely not a redneck. Ted Turner??

Modern Goths are no more dangerous as any other group of people. Ancient Goths were definitely something to be feared tho. I wouldn't discriminate against modern Goths because of what some warlord did in 600 AD though.

Pythos,
Sometimes we have to back up and reinvent ourselves. I've been through the same thing, more than once. Cool guitars BTW. I really like the LP.

First off, I'm really sorry that your circumstances have forced you to have to move back in with your mother. I too am in a similar situation, I just had to accept a job I really don't want for the near future because I didn't get as much work in my chosen profession this year due to the economy, so I have to play catch up, which means at least six more months of living at my own parent's house which is rough enough at 27, I can't imagine doing it in my 30's so my heart goes out to you.

Second, there are ways of being yourself and having your own identity without having to dress exactly like other members of a sub culture. You made that comment about being just like the rest of the masses, well, not conforming just to not conform, really is conforming. The goth subculture has been around long enough now that it is a social group all of its own, it is just as much a uniform as jeans and a t-shirt. But just as you can take the standard goth style clothes and embellish them so that you are expressing your own style, that stuff can be done with "mainstream" clothes too. Remember too that this is only temporary till you can get back on your feet and that if you look at it the right way, it can be something of a fun experiment, "how can I dress this way and yet still maintain my identity and be myself.."

RyeOfTheDead wrote:[... T]here are ways of being yourself and having your own identity without having to dress exactly like other members of a sub culture. You made that comment about being just like the rest of the masses, well, not conforming just to not conform, really is conforming. The goth subculture has been around long enough now that it is a social group all of its own, it is just as much a uniform as jeans and a t-shirt. But just as you can take the standard goth style clothes and embellish them so that you are expressing your own style, that stuff can be done with "mainstream" clothes too. Remember too that this is only temporary till you can get back on your feet and that if you look at it the right way, it can be something of a fun experiment, "how can I dress this way and yet still maintain my identity and be myself.."

There's good wisdom in that observation when it comes to "uniforms". Just because the mainstream uniform is denim trousers doesn't mean that it's that way for all groups or (sub-) cultures.

Rebelling just for the sake of doing so -- like dressing another part without understanding the reason -- I think is ultimately rather pointless. If one does want to "rebel", I think that one needs a reason and a rationale for doing so -- and that includes "mixing it up" with one's style. Our clothing is one of the first things that an onlooker is likely to notice if we are at a distance from them and we're not in the "uniform" that they expect from their (sub-) culture; in close, the first point of notice is traditionally the face, but "at range" (or from behind) that's not always an option. So, we must ask ourselves, "What image am I trying to convey by dressing differently?" "Why am I dressing differently from the accepted uniform?" would be a good question to ask as well.

To the above, there will be as many answers as there are people who actually contemplate the questions, and this is one sign of a healthy culture where the individual has the capacity, power, and leeway to express themselves as they desire. It's the sartorial equivalent of freedom of speech; some opinions are welcomed and accepted, some are reviled and ignored, but taken together point up how different we are as people within a group.

Pythos -- Don't chuck your identity completely just so as to "conform" to your mother's ideals; try bending it a bit by gently shifting in her direction, but still borrow bits of goth style and integrate it into your mother's "mainstream" approach to fashion; sometimes it's possible to get not just the best of both worlds, but a new paradigm that's better than both of them.

Moving back in with one's parents once one has been independent stinks; it feels like a huge punch to the gut, and an indication that one failed on his own and therefore has no worth. I had to move back in with my family for a short period in my mid-20s even though I was still working, and it was no fun. Everybody meant really well, but I was very happy when the situation I was in got resolved and I took off again like a shot (likely to everyone's relief). Likely your mother isn't too thrilled about the current state of things either, so it might be worth keeping that in the back of your mind as well. Good luck!

On the notion of integrating the best of 2 (or more) worlds and winding up with something better than all of them put together: This is something I discovered quite a while after taking up skirts. I made and wore my first skirt out of curiosity. Curiosity almost immediately turned to a realisation that skirts are a lot more comfortable than trousers, and then that for a while was a motivator. Only later on did I begin to realise the options for expression that my new-found "freedom" offered when it came to creatively putting outfits together that actually make comments about who I am (or at least perceive myself to be). This led to a bit of a "boxing" effect in that I stopped being strident for "fashion freedom" and started trying to promote the notion that introspection and wise use of all options came to the fore. The overall impact has been nothing short of profound and has, in a few ways, altered my thinking about things other than style (in addition to actually getting me to think about style -- which I'd never done before). A "new world" opened up, and I'm finding it to be an interesting place to live in (fortunately, my wife not only came along, but occasionally gave be a bit of a prod).

Well, lets see.

I like skirts...can't wear them here.

I like leggings. Nope, I must wear jeans or kakhis.

My "Goth"style is essentially the essence of Goth. In other words, I don't wear what others do. Yes my primary color at times is black, but usually it is worn with contrasting colors including white. My wearing leggings is quite unusual for male goths, as are mini skirts (well around here anyhow).

Her problem I don't think is the Goth, but the feminine aspects of my styles. I blend the masculine and feminine, though there are times the lines blur, and what is presented is (from the words of my ex roommate) "HOT".

This is an example of one look I can pull off. This is "Uber Goth" with elements of visual Kie

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww10 ... JFpose.jpg

This pic got many compliments, both for the axe, and for the get up. One guy on a social group I am in, said that would be guitar world material (though I think he was reffering to another pic along the same theme.

Of course I would not dare show mother this, she would think I was the devil's child. My usual mode is much more tame than this. Minimal, if any makeup, and less dressy clothes, but usually consisting of an outfit with black leggings, and dark colored T-shirt, with some kind of jewelry, with an unbuttoned dress shirt, of a dark or light color.

Goth is not all about wearing black and looking like other Goths. That would be being a poseur:)

I don't dress to rebel. I wear what I do, because pure and simple I am uncomfortable looking like the masses, and, I like what I wear.

You see, there are many out there that think I should "grow out of it". You don't "grow out of it", and the other question is why should I. I hurt no one in any way.

Columbine's connection to Goth was a mishandling of the evidence, and was wrong. It slandered all of the Goth kids out there.

If my mother had her way, I would be dressing like the kids in Ossie and Hariet. Bleahc!!

Pythos wrote:I like skirts...can't wear them here.

I like leggings. Nope, I must wear jeans or kakhis.

This is situational, and hopefully temporary. During the time I spent back with my family in the 1980s I spent almost the entire time under fire for the length of my hair. It was a great relief when I got out (again). Situational issues can feel like they're overwhelming, but in reality seldom are, and are almost never permanent -- and when presented with a situational problem, be it a temporary issue like moving back in with one's parents or a persistent one like conflicts with a job or career, it's sometimes best to go along with what the situation demands, and look to change the situation. The key to this is maintaining focus on the long term and not letting the short/immediate term blind one.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww10 ... JFpose.jpg

My god, is that you?! It's severe, but it rocks. There are also elements in it that could be borrowed and integrated into street-wear.

Of course I would not dare show mother this, she would think I was the devil's child.

Aside from the situational condition you're in at the moment, that's her problem.

I don't dress to rebel. I wear what I do, because pure and simple I am uncomfortable looking like the masses, and, I like what I wear.

Out of curiosity, do you happen to have any concrete reasons for not being comfortable looking like the rest of the flock? Please don't take this as me "having a go at you"; it's much more of an exercise to figure out why you've made the conscious decision to stand out. Consciously sticking out from the crowd is a big step, and takes guts and determination; so, there's likely a deep-seated reason. (It need not be divulged if it's uncomfortable.)

If my mother had her way, I would be dressing like the kids in Ossie and Hariet. Bleahc!!

If your mother wanted to embrace the Ozzie and Harriet mythos then she'd wear nothing but skirts and dresses; from previous commentary, this does not seem to be the case. What a pity that folks don't properly understand hypocrisy.

*Out of curiosity, do you happen to have any concrete reasons for not being comfortable looking like the rest of the flock? Please don't take this as me "having a go at you"; it's much more of an exercise to figure out why you've made the conscious decision to stand out. Consciously sticking out from the crowd is a big step, and takes guts and determination; so, there's likely a deep-seated reason. (It need not be divulged if it's uncomfortable.)*

No problem with this question. I for one have always liked different things. For as long as I have remembered I have not let race determine anything. I like different. I mean, take a look at that instrument. It is the guitar played by an artist I really like (he designed it himself), he has a look that I like to emulate (even before I learned of him). I could have gotten a "nice" Les Paul, but instead for my first guitar I wanted unique...and I got it. To make it even more unique, I noticed in the manufacturer of it, someone messed up with the inlay, and instead of reading "Jeune Fille" (the name of the guitar, which is french for Young girl), it is a "Jenne Fille", making it that much more unique. When I go to have an actual embedded inlay installed, it will remain that way.

I may have subconsciously made the connection of "normal" with dull, or average appearance, with average. I have seen that the people that really have changed things had a varied appearance. Albert Einstien looked like a mad man, what with his wild hair, and sloppy sweaters. Martin Luther king...really look at his clothing, it was quite different in subtle ways from his flock. As far as fashion is concerned, the people that have made strides are those that throw caution to the side, and try new things. In music....well many innovators have had quite varied styles, there was no Ozzy, before Ozzy.

But lets also not forget, I have a deep seeded angst toward hypocrisy. I have always liked skirts, and longer hair on me, and thought it was drastically unfair that I was not permitted to wear such, but girls my age could walk around in boy's pants, and with short hair. My mother's constant wearing of pants, and begrudging me even my leggings just drips of hypocrisy, and I don't think she is aware of it.

I have also made the observation that when a really heinous crime has taken place, the individual (s), are ones that really fall into the "normal" category, (of course inside they are daemons). As far as crime statistics the most common perpetrator that commit shootings, drive by or otherwise fall into the Gang Banger (white or other), category. How many Goths do you hear doing the same. The answer is NONE. Yes we look like walking death, but in actuality most goths are really smart, creative, romantic, people, just with an Addams Family approach to life. I like that. The whole Columbine connection with Goths was a case of bad reporting and police work (The shooters had red laces running through their boots, and had swastikas on their person, and personal items. They loved Hitler, and were wantabe skin heads, according to a report 10 years later, they were as Goth as Jesus was a satanist).

Jeans to me are dead boring, where skirts, and leggings are not. They look great and feel great. So that is why I like them.

Oh and that pic....thank you for the compliment, which I get many of when done up like that, or similar. I look younger, and in the eyes of some of my friends "sexier", how so, ya got me.

Once again, good question, I hope I answered though, I may have rambled. Feel free to probe though, I like introspection of myself.

(you know, I think I will post other examples of my costume, be interesting to see the general reaction, I'll put them in the pics and looks, not quite freestyle, but should be interesting)

Pythos wrote:I may have subconsciously made the connection of "normal" with dull, or average appearance, with average. I have seen that the people that really have changed things had a varied appearance. Albert Einstien looked like a mad man, what with his wild hair, and sloppy sweaters. Martin Luther king...really look at his clothing, it was quite different in subtle ways from his flock. As far as fashion is concerned, the people that have made strides are those that throw caution to the side, and try new things. In music....well many innovators have had quite varied styles, there was no Ozzy, before Ozzy.

That's a decent observation, but also bear in mind that some folks that have dramatically changed the world we live in tend to look like your average, everyday, boring human human being. Take your stereotypical engineer (and do feel free to have a bash at me for this ChrisM): they tend to be about as bland as one gets -- at least in their stereotypical public persona. These are the guys that design skyscrapers that dominate the urban landscape; they design the bridges that we drive over every day and don't even notice; they conceive the contraptions that move us about the planet; and they're the guys that landed men on the moon almost a half-century ago (one look at the archival imagery from the Apollo program's Mission Control can almost give one the giggles if studied very carefully). Do not make the mistake of equating "boring looking" with "irrelevant" (viz "situational awareness", and for contrast, J. Edgar Hoover's pink tutu).

Pythos wrote:But lets also not forget, I have a deep seeded angst toward hypocrisy. I have always liked skirts, and longer hair on me, and thought it was drastically unfair that I was not permitted to wear such, but girls my age could walk around in boy's pants, and with short hair. My mother's constant wearing of pants, and begrudging me even my leggings just drips of hypocrisy, and I don't think she is aware of it.

The most insidious thing about hypocrisy is that the most fervent practitioners of it are blinded to their own actions; it's part and parcel of the thing. It's also something that cannot be solved by external forces; the individual themself must come to the realisation that they've been partaking of it. (Taking up skirts on my part, incidentally, has made me vastly more accepting of seeing my wife in trousers; where 10 or 15 years ago I'd have put up a stink, now I don't -- and in some of her new ones she looks hot.)

Pythos wrote:The whole Columbine connection with Goths was a case of bad reporting and police work (The shooters had red laces running through their boots, and had swastikas on their person, and personal items. They loved Hitler, and were wantabe skin heads, according to a report 10 years later, they were as Goth as Jesus was a satanist).

Dwell not on the Columbine incident; it's history at this point, and the misinterpretation of the perpetrators is as well. As far as the latter comparison goes, I had to shut up a guy I worked with a good many years ago who was trying very hard to "convert" me and who eventually stooped to the level of calling me a "devil worshipper"; I put a stop to that by retorting that "Only Christians can be Satan-worshippers; to me, Satan is a non-entity". That put an end to the harassment.

Jeans to me are dead boring, where skirts, and leggings are not. They look great and feel great. So that is why I like them.

More reason does not need to be stated; that's good enough.

A follow up.

After some time I think my mother finally did some research into my darker and more creative side (and flamboyant), and has learned that Goths are not what she thought. Evidence of this is her not grousing about my leggings (which I slyly snuck on one day), nor does she fret when I remove the JF from her coffin shaped case to play some notes and stuff. Perhaps she has learned a bit about alternative counter cultures, and ones that live it.

Oh and I also re-decided on selling my stang, especially when friends kept saying "I'm gonna regret it". Then I did the error of driving it. I just can't let that wonderful throaty drone leave my life.

Well, I must say that is very encouraging news indeed and that I am happy for you.

Parents do have the capacity to come to the realisation that their children can be individuals -- even eccentrics -- and still have very valid, meaningful, and productive lives. Sadly, all of mine are dead, so consider cherishing the time you have with yours -- even it it drives you (both) nuts sometimes -- because it won't be permanent.

Offhand, I'm tempted to say, "good decision" on the 'stang, but sometimes situations do get in the way of things. I sometimes regret selling my 1968 Dodge Dart convertible back in the 80s, but things were very complex at the time, and whilst I didn't really need the money, I just didn't want more complexity in my life, so I let the car go. But, I have plenty of happy memories from it!

By the by, speaking of cars, I green-lighted the repair of mine last Friday; I anticipate it'll be all out-of-pocket, but I want the car back, and the repairs will be considerably less expensive than either a used vehicle or a new one. They get going on it in earnest on Monday or Tuesday and when they can locate parts.

I like leggings. Nope, I must wear jeans or kakhis.

Just to, (hopefully) be helpful, it's spelled Khakis.. Just move your H a few spaces back and you've got it.