skirtcafe.org

Warning: This style may not please many here, but seeing as it this is the freestyle section I felt it was fitting

So seeing the posts from Juan, I wanted to say I like some of what I have seen, while others are, shall we say, out there.

Lately I have been getting back into music, and have learned of the visual Kie style in Japan.

A majority of the music is forgettable, thought there are some that are amazing. The genre is like 80s hair bands just on a much grander and shall I say elegant scale. If you look up bands like Malice Mizer, Moi Dix Mois, Versailles, gpkism, Dir en Grey, and others your eyes will be treated with some really out there styles, along with styles that are just fantastic.

All have one thing in common. Gender means nearly nothing. Guys wear skirts, dresses, corsets, tights, and so on, and women (when they are around, vk female artist are rare), wear really incredible get ups. The music ranges from heavy hitting gothic, to silly pop.

What I wish is that this style would pick up here in the states. I am personally tired of rock stars getting on the stage all sweaty and sloppy looking, with oversize muscles, and military hair cuts, denim pants or crummy shorts. Green day is cool looking, but compared to VK, they are chumps in appearance, and only Billy Joe seems to have the guts to wear the makeup. (he is the lead of Green Day). I really dislike the thug pimp look. I liked some of the old hair band looks, certainly not all. Kizz look is very unique, and awesome. Marilon Manson is kind of cool, but somehow misses the mark. Alice cooper was great for his time. Ozzy...well he's Ozzy.

I think the reason this style does so well in Japan is because of the Kabuki past. My favorite of these artists, Mana, is most definitely inspired by kabuki, based on his makeup style.
The really funny thing about most of the VK guys is they are fan girl magnets. You should look at some of the forums for them. There are girls and women out there that love this look, or androgynous looking guys. (where the heck are they?:).
I realize these examples are pretty out there, and most likely none here could pull it off, and they are stage costumes. But my point is, in Japan many of the rock stars do similar styles, some look horrible, others look better. (though Mana has done some that have yet to be exceeded) In Japan it is very acceptable for guys to crossdress (which it is not called), there is even a cafe where boys dress in fem clothes and are the food servers, the main customers....GIRLS, and women. It is quite fascinating.

VK artists sexuality is like all other generes all over the scale. The only one that is flat out Bi and open about it is a good artist named Kaya. Most of the others are straight, or don't say anything. Once again In Japan it is totally acceptable. But if you look at the American rock forums "they are all gays". Which there would be no problem with, but it is an incorrect assumption based off their looks. Most of the women fans love feminine beauty, from what I have seen.

A warning about Mana, he is one of the "darker" of the vk artists so his look reflects that, just in case you decide to do some research. I personally love his music, and overall style (intricate blending of classical instruments, and heavy metal...It works I swear;)). Another band of whom I lack good pics of is Versailles, their look is very Victorian looking, but their lead guitarist Hizaki, is incredible. Yes the lyrics are in Japanese. I just listen to the music like I would opera.

The success of VK in a place like Japan just illustrates the cultural differences of our world. But it is interesting how it is doing really well in Europe, but pretty much is still born in the states. Kinda says something about the states.

sorry, but I would not like to meet the bottom photo on a dark night

As I said, he is the "darker" of the lot.

Those are the only pics I have of said artists thought.

All their styles are over the top. But what I was saying is I wish the genre would take off here. Then the idea of a guy wearing a skirt would be trendy, just like how guys walking around with their pants hanging down their backsides became trendy cause the rappers did it.

Do you see what I am meaning?

I see where you are coming from , Pythos. To me, while the style is undoubtedly striking, the movement in Japan is undoubtedly doing much to break down gender barriers, while not exactly mainstreaming the look in question.

It would indeed be nice to see visual kei take hold - but I suspect that as western men are intrinsically less androgynous in looks than eastern Asian men, it may be harder to pull off..!

I find all that "Kie" scene you mention quite interesting. Can it be that you mentioned it before at some other "forum"? I haven't found much info on the Internet... (maybe I should try harder, actually).

I'm not precisely a rock aficionado at all, but let's admit that some of our Western "urban tribes" can also look very
cool:
(Too bad David Bowie's skirts and dresses haven't hung on)
Take care!
Juan

I love that pic of bowie, the first time I saw that I knew it was a guy, but still was impressed. That dress is beautiful (which is something western men, or men in general should never be, according to some idiot).

I have mentioned Mana before on this forum, but I think it was the wrong section, because that thread just vanished.

VK, is very easy to find on the net. Use google and type in Visual Kie, or, type in Mana, Malice Mizer, Moi Dix Mois, Versailles, Dir en Grey. These big names will lead to the smaller names, or the bands that are just starting to gain momentum.

It is also taking a slight hold in Europe. Mana, and Versailles have MANY fans there, their show always sell out and are standing room only. I am surprised you had a hard to finding info.

As far as western men not having fem enough faces. The idea is not fem enough faces. It is the mixture of male and female styles is what I am hoping for, and VK I think can do it. It nearly happened with Micheal Jackson, till he went way over the top. I remember people walking around in some stuff he would wear, just not so much the trade mark glove and all. Just like Bowie in that pic, Most Vk artists ditch the breast forms, or hip forms. If their bodies have the potential for curves, then they may emphasize them with a corset, but that is about it. Their faces though are definitely made up on the feminine side, but I think that is only because only women get to wear make up in our cultures. Look at drawings of ancient Egyptian men and women, their make up is nearly identical. Now the only make up men can wear is for stage lights, the sports field, and my personal favorite (not), camouflage so they can blend in better to kill someone or something, you know manly macho stuff.

Oh, and a point about meeting someone looking like Mana in his later style appearance, in a dark Alley. 1)what are you doing in a dark alley? 2) have you not noticed many people that commit horrible crimes fit in the Normal category? Personally I would think looking like this would scare threats, so to be honest I would not mind having this guy beside me if I needed to walk down a dark alley. Perhaps his visage would make perps think twice, possibly wanting to keep their blood in their veins. LOL.
I for one would love to meet him, even if it was a dark alley, but it would be useless seeing I cannot speak a word of Japanese:) Not yet anyway.

I'll see how people react to me in that costume when I sneak up on them on Halloween. LOL

Oh, my, Pythos! This is sooo cool! Almost a vice! I could spend hours on the computer just checking out the images! Lost of ideas for my own fashion designs! I loved the style. I had no idea... On the other hand, you were right: the music itself is not really remarkable.
Thank you for the suggestion (as a matter of fact, I think you've won over another convert to the VK fan-club)

Take care!

Juan

I hope malice, Mdm, and Versailles are not in that bad music category:) LOL

Just kidding, it is a lovem or hatem kinda thing. I like music in minor chords with deep romantic themes, hence my like of these three especially.

Their looks though O.o

Oh and on top of being a premier gender bender, and music composer, Mana is also a fashion designer, and has his own lable, Moi mem Moitie. He is a key influence of the Elegant Gothic Lolita, and Elegant Gothic Aristocrat look. The latter of which I really like.

The funny thing to me about the David Bowie pic is not his dress, it's the fact NO ONE is even noticing his long hair...I'm old enough to remember when hair over a male's top of the ear got him a beating or arrested. How THINGS DO change. The MUG will have it's time too, we just have to keep working at it and be patient.

In 1964 there was a very popular song about that..the first verse was..~~Are you a boyyyyy or are you a guuuurrrrrrllll~~~ With your long blond hairrrrr, you look like a girlll, are you a boyyy or are you a guuurrrrrl~~How things do change indeed.

I can see it in 2014 first verse..~~are you a boyyyy or are you a guuurrrl, with your long peasant skirt, you look like a guuurrrrrl~~~ are you a boooyyyyy or are you a guuuuurrrrrl?

You know, upon looking at Bowie's "dress" there is no way that was a woman's dress. There is little way that front piece could...hide let along contain breasts. It looks to be fitted for him. (much like my chenongsam was. A female could not get into that gown if she tried, hips, and breast would not fit). I really like that dress though:)

Pythos, if I recall correctly, it was indeed a man's dress. I have no other detail other than that vague recollection.

Turning to your love of minor chords and the like, have you tried, or do you like, 80s goth such as The Mission, Fields of the Nephilim, and Sisters of Mercy? They would, I suspect, be right up your street.

Ray, That is interesting. A man's dress. So I wonder what happened to that (awesome) idea.

In regards to the music. It is the Goth Asthetic I like, the clothing, and makeup. I like some of the music (usually in minor chords), but to be honest, in the 80s I listened to classical musical (by classical I mean orchestra, Bach, Bethoven, Wagner, Mozart, ect). Then I learned of Depeche mode (I know not Goth), I went to goth clubs but before that it was Rocky Horror, once again costumes, and makeup, and fun people. Then later I found Goth, and really fell for it. I am sure I have heard the bands you mentioned in clubs, but do not regularly have them playing on my radio, or comp (heck what radio station plays sisters of Mercy, or Bauhaus these days).

Goth did stem off the post punk era music, but it also got its own aesthetic which I like a lot. I like the romantic nature of it, as well as the classical styles, mixed with more modern stuff.

VK for a note doesn't really fall into Goth (though Mana and Malice Mizer make all their music in a minor chord, and Mana does a good job at looking like the angel of death).

It's funny how many people think goth is a set of music, clothing and thinking, when in fact it can be all or none of those things. A corny phrase which is used when it comes to Goth is, "Goth is finding the beauty in dark things" It kinda sums it up. We are not depressed (though we can depress with our ultra realist views of life:), and we certainly are not murdering little wanna bes like those bastard that shot up Columbine (just remembering how Goths were blamed for those two jackasses inflames my rage. Stupid media).

Due to my upbringing I was never able to be like the other goths, no fancy clothes on a regular basis, no appropriate decor for my room (now that I am back with my mother, that has been reinstated, guh). So I can fall into the title closet goth, which sucks. I really hate how my expression has been curtailed the way it has, and continues to be.

Right enough of that.

Pythos wrote:You know, upon looking at Bowie's "dress" there is no way that was a woman's dress. There is little way that front piece could...hide let along contain breasts. It looks to be fitted for him. (much like my chenongsam was. A female could not get into that gown if she tried, hips, and breast would not fit). I really like that dress though:)

Which just goes to prove that a Great looking dress can be made for the male figure.