Women Flogged and Fined for Wearing Trousers

[Cory]

According to this AP article (abbreviated below; you can Google the original), women are severely punished to this day for opting to wear trousers.

Happily, we guys do not have to worry about ever seeing this headline slightly amended to read “Men Flogged and Fined for Wearing Skirts.”

Yet even though there is no law preventing any man from pulling on a skirt and going about his daily business, virtually all men interested in skirts are too traumatized to ever dare to do so.

As people at this Cafe know too well, most men are so thoroughly conditioned by our culture that they would never admit (some even to themselves) that they would happily include skirts in their wardrobe choices given a real chance. There are even men so skirt-phobic that they can not bring themselves to wrap a towel around themselves after a shower.

I don’t really have a point other than to wish these Sudanese women the best and honor them for their courage to buck the dictates of their society by daring to wear trousers. I guess I’d also like to condemn the culture (Islamic in this case) that can legally flog and fine them for doing so.

A fantasy: Hundreds of men and women caring enough about these women to hold a big rally outside the Sudanese embassy -- both genders wearing skirts/ trousers. Our demand for them: what we demand for ourselves – the basic human right to weat whatever clothes they feel comfortable in.

Here's the shortened article:

Women Flogged and Fined for Wearing Trousers

Associated Press

Sudanese police arrested 13 women in a raid on a café and flogged 10 of them in public for wearing trousers in violation of the country's strict Islamic law.

The 13 women were at a café in the capital, Khartoum, when they were detained Friday by officers from the public order police, which enforces the implementation of Sharia law in public places.

Islamic Sharia law has been strictly implemented in Sudan since the ruling party came to power in a 1989 military coup.

Public order cases usually involve quick summary trials with sentences carried out shortly afterward, as was the case with 10 of the women arrested Friday. They were flogged and fined 250 Sudanese pounds, or about $120.

Hussein and two other women chose to go to trial. On Monday, she was summoned for questioning and now she awaits a decision from the prosecutor on when the case could go to trial.

'Big Brother Is Watching'

Women in northern Sudan, particularly in Khartoum, dress in traditional outfits that include a shawl over their head and shoulder. Western dress is uncommon.

Still, the raid on a Khartoum cafe popular with journalists and foreigners was unusual.

Hussein's lawyer, Nabil Adeeb, said action by the public order police is often arbitrary and aims "from time to time to let people know that big brother is watching you." Hussein said she decided to speak out because flogging is a practice many women endure in silence. She even sent printed invitations to the press and public figures to attend her expected trial.

"Let the people see for themselves. It is not only my issue," she said. "This is retribution to thousands of girls who are facing flogging for the last 20 years because of wearing trousers," she said. "They prefer to remain silent."

[Kris]

Happily, we guys do not have to worry about ever seeing this headline slightly amended to read “Men Flogged and Fined for Wearing Skirts.”

Yet even though there is no law preventing any man from pulling on a skirt and going about his daily business, virtually all men interested in skirts are too traumatized to ever dare to do so.

True of course for the Western world, where most Cafe members reside. There are perhaps some backwards countries where a man could be flogged for wearing a skirt, or for any number of other transgressions of what is deemed proper male presentation and behavior. Sudan is definitely a backwards place (IMHO).

"Sharia law", which makes the teachings of the Koran (or at least a particular interpretation thereof) into civil law, should be a warning to all. The separation of church and state in the US Constitution (the exact interpretation of which can be argued by constitutional scholars and judges), is one of the great ideas of the Western world. Before that, most states (but certainly not all) had an officially sanctioned religion, and laws were made to conform to that religion's interpretation of it's holy books. No mater what religion you adhere to, if any, that principal should be important to you.

Kris

[Since1982]

And...the world of Islam is trying very hard in ALL countries to take over the world and put Islamic Law into effect everywhere. The United States is fighting that, so are most enlightened countries. Thank the powers that be for that. I don't think an Islamic government would allow a skirted man or even a man wearing a caftan without trousers under it in public.

[crfriend]

And...the world of Islam is trying very hard in ALL countries to take over the world and put Islamic Law into effect everywhere. The United States is fighting that, so are most enlightened countries.

Dammit. Mod hat on

This is straying too close to bashing various forms of religion which is strictly verboten here.

It may be worth remembering that the Taleban in southwest Asia are not about faith but rather about power and control -- just like their brethren here in the US; the only discernable difference is that the ones in the US wear ties.

Furthermore, I find myself increasingly incensed with the mass media for not pointing up that the very kinky forms of what are claimed to be "Sharia Law" actually have precious little basis in the Koran. I have a number of good friends who happen to be of the Muslim faith, and to a one they are aghast at what is being done in the name of Islam.

Let's stop bashing faith so I don't have to lock the thread.

[Sarongman]

Like Carl, I have friends who are of the Moslem faith who are horrified by the fundamentalists, (two are refugees from fundamentalist horror) as we all are of this strand in all faiths. What this thread points out is the deliberate misreading of "holy books" to make people comply with the mores of a particular regime. Though, if you remember, Skip was going to have his hair cut back in the "good old days" by the 'good old boys', so we always have to be on our guard to not have our freedoms whittled away from us on a pretext of "public order".

[skirtingtherealissue]

Dammit. Mod hat on

This is straying too close to bashing various forms of religion which is strictly verboten here.

It may be worth remembering that the Taleban in southwest Asia are not about faith but rather about power and control -- just like their brethren here in the US; the only discernable difference is that the ones in the US wear ties.

Furthermore, I find myself increasingly incensed with the mass media for not pointing up that the very kinky forms of what are claimed to be "Sharia Law" actually have precious little basis in the Koran. I have a number of good friends who happen to be of the Muslim faith, and to a one they are aghast at what is being done in the name of Islam.

Let's stop bashing faith so I don't have to lock the thread.

[Hope I'm not breaking a rule here, but...] Thank you Mr Moderator. I've not read the Koran nor studied Islam in detail, but my understanding is that it is similar to most religions; it promotes respect, albeit slightly differently from what we are used to.

I do, however, know several Muslims, who are deeply saddened by the corruption of their faith for social, political and economic purposes. Let's hope we can move towards celebrating our differences, rather than fighting about them.

Now, back on topic....

The flogging and fining of these women for wearing trousers is wrong, period! Reminds me of this post:

Re: Freestyler section of the forum

...

IT SEEMS STRANGE THAT TROUSERED WOMEN CAN RUN AMOK AT WILL, FOR FRANKLY THE SIGHT IS CRIMINAL AND AN AFFRONT TO THE SENSES.” Women in pants was an “attempt to merge the tewo sexes into one person;” they were afflicted with “permanent mental hallucination;” they were arrested by policemen because the cops were offended by pants on women; they needed “treatment” in “the best conducted hospitals for the insane”—NY Times, May 27, 1876, page 6.

Looks like we're a little ahead, but as this is where we were in 1876 (and probably through to 1939), not by much.

[Since1982]

I'm ignorant I guess, I didn't mean to seem like I was bashing any religion, if it was thought that way, I am deeply saddened and apologise contritely.

[r1g0r]

i will not bash islam. at least not more than any other organized religion. (i personally distrust them all, and wish people would simply pray without the help of some guy waving his magic XXX at them)

as it originally stands, islam is a faith based on education, contemplation, and personal growth. even jihad is intended to be the individuals internal and spiritual battle, not some scattered holy war.

unfortunately, a large percentage of islamic followers are illiterate and therefore rely on others to read/interperate the koran for them. this leads to a lot of people with non-traditional islamic views proliferating their own agendas, and a lot of people being taught the opposite of islamic values.

i've spent some small amount of time in saudi arabia, kuwait, bahrain, and other spots i can't remember at this moment. the people were friendly, even gracious. they were generous to a fault. they were more than eager to talk with westerners about their culture in a mutually inclusive manner. they were nicer than most people i've met on the streets here, and the average person here could take a lesson in courtesy from them.

unfortunately, the most visible members of their society are the WORST examples, and our media focuses on them.

[Kris]

I hope I came across not as bashing Islam, but as promoting the separation of church and State.

Just imagine if someone proposed making civil law conform to "Biblical Law" based on a strict interpretation of the Old Testament of the Bible. A fundamentalist view, taking literally every proscription and every punishment in that work, would be just as abhorrent (and perhaps very similar) to "Sharia Law".

Kris

[Sarongman]

I guess you will, on the other side of the world, be waking to the news that J.I. or a splinter group of same has explodod bombs in hotels in Djakarta. Six confirmed dead, many injured. I know a beautiful Imam in Melbourne (who sends Christmas cards to his Christian friends) will be moved to tears of sadness and bewilderment at the corruption of his beloved faith.

[Ray]

A very civilised series of postings in what is a very sensitive area.

I'm impressed.