skirtcafe.org

This is purely my preference and I can't speak for anyone else, nor do I want to. This is true of everything I post and I suspect everone else that posts too.
But I grew up, from the mid 1940s to the mid 1960s, when it was pretty much the norm for women and girls to wear skirts or dresses. It wasn't 24/7/365 but close to it. Schools all had dress codes for both boys and girls and skirts or dresses for girls were an absolute must. It wasn't until my younger sister, nine years my junior, got into her Freshman year of college when suddenly the dress code for girls started to be relaxed. My sister jumped into jeans, slacks and pants as fast as she could and never looked back.
It's been the bane of my exitance to watch as skirt wearing is slowly disappearing.
I like the sight of a woman in a skirt or dress or any kind of skirted garment. It's just what I grew up being used to. And now I feel cheated, robbed of something I always treasured.
But I also hoped and prayed as I grew up that, somehow, men would discover how wonderful it felt to be in a skirt. I prayed during my entire childhood that there would be a revelation someday to men as a group, that skirts feel really great.
Of course, nothing like that ever happened, aside from my own fantasy world.
So men continue to wear pants and see no advantage to skirts.
I wonder sometimes if men are so stuck in their ways that they can't adjust.
Maybe that explains women's uphill battle for equal rights.
Dennis A, Lederle

I guess that also explains my anguish over women not wearing skirts anymore!

So do i my friend. It sounds so tragic, the way you put it. But, around here at any rate, the girls are really embracing them again, after a hiatus some years ago. Even dresses. And it is quite wintry weather here at present. So take heart, and men seem to be able to wear skirts, and even dresses, at least around here, if my experience is anything to go by. Jack.

It's been the bane of my exitance to watch as skirt wearing is slowly disappearing.
I like the sight of a woman in a skirt or dress or any kind of skirted garment. It's just what I grew up being used to. And now I feel cheated, robbed of something I always treasured.

Every time I read something like this it reminds me of two things:

1) It reminds me of myself before I grew up and developed an adult way of looking at things, and
2) just how much of a whine it is.

Women are not objects put here for the pleasure of men. They are living breathing creatures that have the right of self-determination and the abilities to exercise that right. Demanding that they wear something solely so you can "appreciate" it is right up there with the way the Taleban behave. If a woman chooses to dress the way you like her to, then that's great; however, it is patently unfair to expect all (or a substantial percentage of) women to do so.

But I also hoped and prayed as I grew up that, somehow, men would discover how wonderful it felt to be in a skirt. I prayed during my entire childhood that there would be a revelation someday to men as a group, that skirts feel really great.

It's something that, I suspect many young boys would like to explore, but the conformity they must adhere to makes that exploration extraordinarily difficult. This may explain the "need" to adopt a different persona and attempt to "pass".

It takes a whole lot of guts to be different in this world; the fact that we are now seeing an acceptance on the part of the younger generation is a very encouraging sign. The need for deep personal courage may also be why most of the men in skirts are either close to, or above, "middle age" -- they (1) have the confidence (bravery) to be different and (2) they have the power to make it stick and to successfully shout down nay-sayers if the need arises.

Of course, nothing like that ever happened, aside from my own fantasy world.
So men continue to wear pants and see no advantage to skirts.
I wonder sometimes if men are so stuck in their ways that they can't adjust.

Look around you. At the moment you'll likely not see another chap in a skirt, but this does not mean you are alone. A lot, of course, depends on where you are: places that are open and liberal are likely going to be more tolerant of such behaviour than some of the more "backwards" spots in the world. Apart from an arranged meet with AMM earlier this year and one instance in Boston during the 1990s, I have never seen another man in a skirt. Sapphire, however, has -- locally -- so I know that I am not alone: which is, in and of itself, highly encouraging.

Maybe that explains women's uphill battle for equal rights.

The deck is stacked. Men have always held the power in the relationship between the sexes, and whilst there has been a much-needed shift towards a balance there's still quite a ways to go. One cannot "blame" women for wanting equality; if you were a woman, wouldn't you want to level the playing field? Or would you be happy being an object?

DALederle wrote:And now I feel cheated, robbed of something I always treasured.

I don't know how the women who read this forum would react to this comment, but it comes off as creepy to me.

First of all, it sounds like you think that women in general -- women who don't even know you -- owe it to you to give you what you "always treasured." If you had a beard and one day decided to shave it off, and then random strangers came up to you and said, "I don't like the fact that you shaved off your beard," wouldn't you think it was weird and worrisome?

Second of all, when I hear a man saying "cheated, robbed," about women or a woman, it makes me think of all those men who are willing to use violence against women who they feel have "cheated" or "robbed" them. I don't think you mean that (at least, I hope you don't), but you do make it sound like you share those men's sense that they are entitled to all sorts of things from women, and that women are committing an offense against you personally by not giving you what you are "entitled" to.

There are reasons that women aren't wearing skirts as much as in the past, and they're not hard to find. You don't even have to look at a different website -- you've posted this complaint before, and gotten some answers. But you don't seem interested in them. You don't seem interested in all the things that women go through in their lives just because they're women, things which, among other things, make them prefer not to wear skirts. You only seem interested in how "cheated, robbed" you feel.

Even though I'm not a woman, I find it worrisome.

whoa whoa whoa

this message came from a man whose childhood was in the 1940-1960 time period. the memories of childhood (unless traumatic) are usually idealised and you can'd berate dennis for missing those images.

i remember ALL of my female teachers wearing skirts and dresses EXCLUSIVELY. those childhood memories are very vivid, and i don't blame dennis for missing those things.

i miss them too, dennis. they were better days, and not just because there were more skirts worn

Here's another old fart with the same memories. I was very quick to record "Hairspray" even though it was very "unreal" as to how things were done in the 50's where I was raised in Fort Lauderdale Florida. I recorded it because it very clearly had a lot of the clothing down pat from that time period. I remember in 1957 actually bumping into a girl on a schoolbus and saying (all the new kids probably thought it was a movie phrase) "Excuse me Doll, I didn't mean to dent your do". Because very definitely hairspray was part of every girls/womans daily life. My Mom's room smelled of it all the time.

The only thing really "unreal" about the movie was the interaction between the races and all the dancing on buses. Blacks and whites did not play together much in those times. I remember race riots in the early 60's..and all the bad things in the 50's. When my mother moved to Florida from Reading Pennsylvania she thought the sign "Whites Only" at Laundramats meant they didn't wash green, blue, red or any other colored goods there, only white goods like sheets etc. I had an ongoing verbal fight with my own father about it. I believed and still do believe that everyone is the same under the skin, he was the son of a Grand Wizard of the Invisible Empire. I got whipped on a lot in my teens because of our opposite feelings. He and his father are together now. Wherever racists go after life.

Come on guys!

Saying you like to see women in skirts doesn't mean you're going to force them all to wear skirts only. Don't be so jumpy about it. I like to see them skirted,too but not forcing anybody to anything. My wife knows I like to see here skirted and I've noticed that after I stared to show much interest in kilts/skirts she wears the skirt more often.

i remember ALL of my female teachers wearing skirts and dresses EXCLUSIVELY. those childhood memories are very vivid, and i don't blame dennis for missing those things.

The problem here is that there seems to be a perceived expectation that women should -- nay, are expected to -- change to suit an individual's memories or fantasies. That's just not going to happen, and whining about it is not going to help.

I concur that childhood memories are very vivid; they also tend to be romanticised. Things, however, change, and as we grow we must adjust to life as adults; we can cherish those memories, but we cannot become slaves to them, nor should we attempt to shove others into those memories if they do not want to be there.

Women frequently perceive men as being sexually pushy and obsessed with women's bodies while neglecting their own. Comments like those above only serve to confirm the suspicions. There are zillions of websites out there in which slobby men with a grown beer gut objectify every little bit of womens' bodies. This is not one of them. This forum is about men, men's bodies, and men's fashions.

crfriend wrote:

i remember ALL of my female teachers wearing skirts and dresses EXCLUSIVELY. those childhood memories are very vivid, and i don't blame dennis for missing those things.

The problem here is that there seems to be a perceived expectation that women should -- nay, are expected to -- change to suit an individual's memories or fantasies. That's just not going to happen, and whining about it is not going to help.

I concur that childhood memories are very vivid; they also tend to be romanticised. Things, however, change, and as we grow we must adjust to life as adults; we can cherish those memories, but we cannot become slaves to them, nor should we attempt to shove others into those memories if they do not want to be there.

if you're going to quote somebody, don't decide what their expectations are/were/will be. if i had something ELSE on my mind, i would have stated it. i have no "perceived expectations" of anybody. i don't expect or want somebody else to change to suit my preferences. that would mean THEY had the same right to expect me to change.

i stated the simple facts of my feelings. I MISS SEEING WOMEN IN SKIRTS.

i'd expect a "moderator" to be more MODERATE. i don't think you'd like me writing in here, telling everybody what YOU actually meant by your postings, and i'll thank you to show me the same courtesy.

if you're going to quote somebody, don't decide what their expectations are/were/will be. if i had something ELSE on my mind, i would have stated it. i have no "perceived expectations" of anybody. i don't expect or want somebody else to change to suit my preferences. that would mean THEY had the same right to expect me to change.

My intent was to address the much harsher tone of the original poster; if that did not come across clearly, I take full responsibility and apologise for it.

i stated the simple facts of my feelings. I MISS SEEING WOMEN IN SKIRTS.

As do I, but I don't make a fuss about it -- and I'm not saying that you do. Again, I was commenting primarily on the original poster's thesis.

i'd expect a "moderator" to be more MODERATE.

I wrote that as an individual contributor, not as a moderator; had I intended it to carry a moderator's force, I would have stated the fact and colour-coded it as I've always done in the past. Bear in mind that I'm human too, and humans occasionally screw up. I certainly meant no offence to you personally and it was not my intent to put words in your mouth.

crfriend wrote:

i'd expect a "moderator" to be more MODERATE.

I wrote that as an individual contributor, not as a moderator; had I intended it to carry a moderator's force, I would have stated the fact and colour-coded it as I've always done in the past. Bear in mind that I'm human too, and humans occasionally screw up. I certainly meant no offence to you personally and it was not my intent to put words in your mouth.

Both Carl and I have stated our opinions as individual contributors. Neither of us have taken any moderator actions.

i appreciate your apology.

one of the WORST things about written discussions is the loss of verbal (audible) intonations. what a person writes is interperated by the reader in whatever way they choose, and this is THE BIGGEST cause of disagreements i see.

i write: i miss these things.
i'm thinking: i miss THESE things.
you read: i MISS these things.

and that's just in four words.

how many people have found a way to mis-understand the eighty four words i've written here?

r1g0r wrote:i appreciate your apology.

Thank you. It was meant sincerely because what I wrote was lax in construction and was open to misinterpretation.

i write: i miss these things.
i'm thinking: i miss THESE things.
you read: i MISS these things.

and that's just in four words.

I can think of a better one. In Shakespeare's MacBeth, when questioned, "What if we fail", an answer is delivered, simply, as, "We fail". Where does one put the emphasis? In two words, one can take at least four discrete meanings -- and there's no way, without acting notes, of easily discerning it from the script! And each of those could have the power to alter the outcome of the play (of course we know how it shakes out, but if one is seeing it anew....).

There are soo many meanings to "What if we fail"...Could be WHAT if we fail..or What IF we fail or What if WE fail? or the worst one, What if we FAIL?.. 4 different meanings depending on 4 differently couched suggestions.