skirtcafe.org

I saw this story on the front page of our local newspaper today: Many peers back cross-dressing student

The headline is misleading/incorrect; it is about a student who identifies himself as transsexual and is quoted as saying he plans to get a sex-change operation. The "cross-dressing" is part of his identification as female.

The student is at a Brewster High School. (Brewster, NY is about 10 miles west of Danbury, Connecticutt, and just north of the northern border of Westchester County.) That area doesn't have a reputation for open-mindedness; for example, some people were elected to local political office on an anti-immigrant platform.

While most of the article was about the transsexual student, there was one part that is more relevant to us:

In a show of support, several students have organized an "Equality Protest" this week, by showing up to school dressed in garments of the opposite sex.

Yesterday, about a dozen teens gathered at a local deli with boys wearing skirts, wigs and dresses and girls donning caps, cargo pants and T-shirts. They said about 60 students cross-dressed yesterday, though school officials said the number was far less.

"We want Mike to feel more comfortable in his surroundings," said senior Shannon Dodd, 18, one of the organizers. "We're letting the student body know that it's OK to dress this way."

...

Yesterday, the gender-bending students got a glimpse of what Loscalzo has been going through.

"The faces I got were not just disgusted but horrified," said senior Robert Gewirtz, 17. "I'm wearing a skirt. It's not like I have leprosy."

"It shows you exactly how someone in Mike's situation would feel," chimed in senior Christopher Motta, 17. "What I'm hoping that this does is show people that it doesn't matter what you wear, you can express yourself however you wish."

I suspect the boys got noticed in their skirts and wigs, but the girls in cargo pants and tee shirts? Unlikely they'd be noticed.

Charlie

Well, what surprises me is the show of support from the other guys. I would have expected exactly the opposite.

JRMILLER wrote:Well, what surprises me is the show of support from the other guys. I would have expected exactly the opposite.

First, if it surprises you, then I'd have to say you haven't had enough real contact with teenagers (TV shows don't count ) They are a mix of good and bad, like everybody else. I have run into some amazingly intelligent, open-minded, thoughtful, good-hearted, and courageous teen-agers. If I have any hope for the human race, it is in large part because of the decent, "unspoiled" young people I have had the privilege of spending time with.

Second, if you read between the lines, it's clear that not all of the "other guys" were so supportive. The story doesn't say what sort of people were "disgusted" and/or "horrified," but no doubt some "other guys" were among them.

Finally, to put it into perspective, the school's web site says it has 1,200 students. 60 demonstrators are roughly 6% of the school.

There was a follow-up article today. No earthshaking new revelations, but still interesting.

Interesting! I'ld say, after reading the follow-up article, that
the school is supportive, some of the students ( and parents )
still have a 'closed mind' on this subject.

I hope there is a 3rd article describing what takes place
on Friday.

I wish him the best and pray some 'Wacko' doesn't try
anything negative against him. We don't need another
situation to happen, like the one out in California.

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

deleted

There have been some interesting reports on NPR's All Things Considered this week on transexuality in young children. I'd encourage everyone with an interest to listen to or read the archived reports.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=90247842

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=90273278

Sasq

Sasquatch wrote:There have been some interesting reports on NPR's All Things Considered this week on transexuality in young children. ...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=90247842
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=90273278

I read the articles. I found them profoundly depressing.

The picture I got from the stories is that the adults around these children (including the reporters) are so constrained in their thinking that they simply cannot see the children as they are.

I am reminded of the poor kittens in a neurology experiment in which some were only able to view vertical lines for their first few months and others only horizontal lines; the ones who had seen only vertical lines couldn't jump onto a chair because they couldn't see the horizontal seat of the chair, while the others bumped into chair and table legs because their optic nerves didn't detect vertical lines. That's the way most adults are as far as gender goes.

These children may have "gender dysphoria", they may be "transgender", but the adults around them have been hammering these round pegs into square holes for so long, it's hard to tell how much is intrinsic and how much is a response to the 24/7 brainwashing they are undergoing.

The way the therapists in these stories act and talk reminds me of The Child Buyer, or how children were raised in Brave New World.

One of our local columnists weighed in on this: Adults are wrong to scorn cross-dressing teen

One of the more pertinent parts of her column was:

... it was common to view Loscalzo [the transsexual student] as a distraction whom the other students should not have to face.

The notion of a distraction-free high school seems absurd. What about girls? What about boys? What about football? High school is full of distractions, and teenagers study despite them.

I'm reminded of how whenever I meet with somebody at a school, we can't talk for more than a few minutes without getting interrupted by a bell going off, or some announcement over the PA systems, or a phone call, or someone popping in with a question. I'm amazed that teachers can maintain a coherent lesson, or students keep track of anything, with all the chaos that goes on. And these are in some of the top high schools in the country, not some archetypal inner-city blackboard jungle of a school.

While slightly It must be my English heritage coming out but, to me the title evokes the rather humorous image of the majority of the British House of Lords approving this boy/girls dressing

AMM wrote:

Sasquatch wrote:There have been some interesting reports on NPR's All Things Considered this week on transexuality in young children. ...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=90247842
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=90273278

I read the articles. I found them profoundly depressing.

These children may have "gender dysphoria", they may be "transgender", but the adults around them have been hammering these round pegs into square holes for so long, it's hard to tell how much is intrinsic and how much is a response to the 24/7 brainwashing they are undergoing.

The way the therapists in these stories act and talk reminds me of The Child Buyer, or how children were raised in Brave New World.

I'm not sure we were talking about the same articles. These were IMHO quite sensitively and objectively reported. I found it encouraging that there were therapists advising parents to accept the likely gender orientation of their children. The only part that was disturbing was the mindset of that one therapist recommending that the clearly transgendered little boy be immersed in "masculine" toys and activities and denied his preferred "feminine" toys and clothes. That seemed morally antiquated and backward-thinking to me. And the fact that this mindset has been the prevalent school of thought on the issue and the treatment heretofore prescribed, I did find quite sad.

However, the positive responses from the children allowed to express their innate gender and the therapists who recommended allowing them to express their gender was, to me, uplifting. Perhaps it made a difference whether you listened to the story or simply glanced over the text as to the impression you came away with. Overall, the stories left me feeling hopeful about the prospects for children to be able to express who they are inside, with regard to gender.

And I suppose, personally, that I take a positive outlook on what the future can hold rather than dwelling on the deficiencies of the past.
Sasq

AMM wrote:One of our local columnists weighed in on this: Adults are wrong to scorn cross-dressing teen

It seemed like the transgendered student was the only one in the whole school mature enough to deal with the issue - by simply proceeding with his life!

Sasq

From what I've read in the interviews, I think this 'kid' has
a better grasp of life than most adults.

Quote from article;

Does it ever feel overwhelming? Yes, Loscalzo said, adding
that he stays awake late writing in his journal.

"I always write about my mixed feelings about this," he said.
"But never once has it ever crossed my mind that I want to give up.
Life is about challenges. You have to get through them."

"Life is about challenges. You have to get through them." This is
what 'we' (Cafe' patrons) are all about, and 'we' support each other
to get through these challenges.

If Mr/Ms Loscalso ever came to the Cafe' I, for one, would give a
warm and hearty welcome. I like his attitude about 'getting through
these challenges' and IMHO feel that many of the patrons here, feel
the same way.

I'm just not sure of the other 'kids' in his area. As my wife says
"I'm not worried about your driving, it's the other drivers that worry
me."

I still pray that some Wacko doesn't try anything stupid, or
cause any harm to Loscalso. He has made himself a bit of a
target, but don't we all when we wear our kilts/skirts out-n-about?

The difference, in this case, is we are much 'older', and as adults
are more accepted to be able to make these 'statements'. A 'young'
person is not 'mature enough' to know what he/she wants to do
with his/her life. A 'young person' must be shaped and molded to
fit 'sterotypically' in society. To me, Loscalso is more 'mature' than
most teenagers of today.

I wish the best for Loscalso!

Uncle Al
Duncanville, TX

I think it is great for him, ( her ) to know for sure, now at the young age that he is a she. And therefore take suitable action while still young and growing. That should be better for the hormones and eventual sex change operations.

About the reactions, well, I only read the first few, nearly throwing up with disgist at some.

Jump off a bridge etc.
I say hang those that say such things!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They probably have a kluklux outfit as wel...

But seriously, what is all the fuss about? The fact that it was written about states that there is much negative, discriminatory feeling out there for everybody who is remotely different, otherwise it would have no effect, be of no interest to write about it.

When it should be all about being yourself, and being respected for being just that, irregardless of the way you dress. Ie girls in pants.. what are they? Should they wear skirts and have sex with every boy? Come on now Men should only wear pants...and definitely not wear skirts or other clothes not of the male fashion. By the way naturalists / nudes must also be on the hate list, as the even don't have any clothing to differentiate / discriminate by at all!!!

The first thing you should learn in school is te respect the other people. That everyone is unique, in their own way ( not talking about people who are obviously criminal in any way, or who discriminate) and earns respect until proven otherwise.

Teaching should be about People learning, PEOPLE, not Boys and girls, men or women. That way discrimination on grounds of gender will not be made / taught. People encompasses all soorts of gender and the way people dress and present themselves, all being equal. It is not needed to split people up in seperate categories, unless there is an intention to make use of that, which is mostly negative for the people involved.

Like splitting people up into religious beliefs when there is no need for it. Therefore giving discrimination by religion in this case a chance.
We are all people. Just like ( I hope) we all are at skirt cafe, just all people, in this case males, ( with some interested women taking part in discusion, which is very welcomed ) who want to wear skirts, in their many nuances. To name the different nuances when totally not relevant is wantingly making room for ( can leed to ) discrimination.

We seem to be all openminded here on the cafe, as the more narrow minded ( on a certain type of skirt wearer way ) amongst us have gone to the Braveheart site. I have no problems with that, they are happy there, and we are happy here.

I get very positive fedback from people, who look at me as a human being, not as a man posing as something else or whatever. Looking at people for who they are, actually at the inner self, the mind in an outer shell is most rewarding. It is unbiased by the packaging, be it man like or woman like or inbetween. Nor is there seen sickness or deformity. We can be blinded somewhat by what our eyes see, but our minds can se through that all and see the other inner self of the other person.

That was a mouth full. And hoping all goes well with Michael, as some of those comments were so extremely cruel.

Which brings me to annother point, although we don't wantingly want to seek danger, insecurity, it is of utter importance to whenever even minutely possible, to be our selves, even though it may be at a cost. Because the whole of life is at a great cost.... But it is the moments in life that are rewarding that make life worth the while.

Whether it be as a full macho man, or a femme person, of male gender, in a skirt, no matter, all should be true to themselves and not to a image that others force upon us.

I can't help thinking back to '40-'45, and all the people who at enormous risk stood up and stayed true to themselves, which in that time also did unfortunately actually come at great cost. But not have done so would have been a greater cost...

We, skirt wearing men, I believe, be true to ourselves and go out there and show others who we are. Not to be utter foolish, but to dare come up for OUR RIGHTS as fellow humans to have a life, OUR life. Which also means not to let ourselves be withheld by not only others, but not by those close to us, our partners, because I think that is even worse than being rejected by a stranger. That is the person who should be there for you as you are there for her ((maybe him...)) If that person who you share your life with doesn't support you in your way of life, well that is I think a terrible situation.