Musings on Casual vs. "Dress up"

[AMM]

Here at SkirtCafe, a number of us have complained about how, as we see it, the "casual look" has taken over. That is, people spend more and more time dressed as if it didn't matter how they looked. I don't exactly have a full explanation of it, but here are some of my musings on the subject.

I grew up in a time when people dressed up to go to church, to visit people you didn't see every day, or almost any public occasion (unless it was something where you'd expect to get dirty, like a picnic.) People dressed up partly to "show respect" and partly to show themselves off to best advantage. Basically, you dressed up because you wanted the people who saw you out in public to think the best of you, and it mattered to you what they thought.

Also, there was the idea of a private life (what you did at home, where most folks couldn't see) and public life (out where you interacted with the others in your community.)

I find that nowadays, people seem to mostly not relate to people around them, except to those who they have identified as "people they know." Cell-phones and i-Pods are sort of symbolic -- you fill your ears with sound so you don't have to be aware of the people around you, and you talk on your cell phone to the people you choose to relate to. (The fact that total strangers are involuntarily hearing your description of last night's sexual activity doesn't even register with you.)

I relate this to one-way media like television, and the celebrity culture. When you watch TV, or listen to a CD, you are very much aware of who you are watching or listening to, but they aren't aware of you. And it's celebrities -- by which I mean the people you watch and read about -- that everyone you meet is talking about and everybody knows, not you or the folks next door or down the street. The celebrities don't know who you are or how you're dressed, and they won't notice whether you behave admirably or abominably. Since you're spending all your free time at home, watching TV, and not spending any time getting to know your neighbors, you now live among strangers.

One result of this is that people are suspicious of their neighbors. I remember when we lived in an apartment over an older woman living by herself. She was always watching television, mostly suspenseful shows with scary music and occasional screams. Every now and then, we would knock on her door to ask her something, and she would open the door slightly, but never take off the chains on the door. I don't know if she didn't recognize us, or if she just treated everyone as a threat.

Last night, the ball I went to (see my posting under "what did you wear out and about") started out, as usual, with a Grand March. This is where everyone who is attending forms sort of a parade of couples and marches up and down the room and through various formations, as indicated by the host of the ball. The point of it seems to be to give everyone an opportunity to look at everyone else -- to "see and be seen" -- and to talk about it. I've read that in the past, community dances always started with a Grand March. Such dances were one of the main social occasions in the community, and was where people got to meet with most everyone in their community. People were dressed their best and on their best behavior. If a man took off his jacket, or a woman's dress was a bit too risque', everyone would talk about it for months. Some people nowadays might complain that it restricted people too much, but it also meant that you had some sort of relationship to all the other people in the community, because what you did mattered to them.

Dressing casually all the time is a reflection of the idea that there are no people whose "first impression" of you matters. There are your intimates -- those who know you so well that how you dress doesn't matter -- and there are strangers -- those who exist only as potential threats (or impediments.) Also, most of the people you meet are strangers, and your goal isn't to impress them but to not make yourself a target. So you dress as drably as possible. (Black is good, especially at night, because then people often can't see you at all.)

To wrench this over to some relevance to skirt-wearing: when I go out in a skirt to the post office or to the grocery store, or to a restaurant out of town, how much of the "acceptance" I meet is due to people actually accepting a man in a skirt, and how much is my being a total stranger, who they don't give a d---- about as long as they know he's not dangerous?

(I think I'd better stop my ramblings here....)

[Bri]

i would say it's probably a little of both. I went to a mexican restaurant "family" one and walked in wearing 3/4 tights. I didn't act like anything else was different or strange even to the woman greeting me as I walked in the door. I got a few longer than expected looks by some people eating with their kids, but I think that was just "I don't expect to see this everyday so now I'm curious" type of look, rather than "is he a registered sex offender and i should keep my kids on a short leash" look.

I blame the news for a lot of what's going on today, the media yes that too, but mostly the news. It's warning everyone to "watch out, or be on the look" for certain people and warning people of the slight /remote possibility that "these" people are out and not to be trusted too much, and by saying "these" I just mean people in general that they chose to go out and pick on because it makes a story that will sell. Imagine in school how it would be if someone from the paper in the school started going around and collecting information that could potentially hurt other people just because it made a good story. I don't think they would last very long, nor would other people like them at all. What's the change when they actually get a job at these places? I think it's annenemity (sp?) that we as people don't know them personally, and if we did they would probably change the way they reported as they do news like a call center does calls. One at a time, and when one story is done it's off to the next. If it hurt anyone, oh well, I didn't do anyting, I just reported what went on. True, but if someone's reporting the news and it hurts people, maybe changing the way the story is told might help people.

[Pythos]

3/4 tights? Do you mean tight fitting capris? If so, that is not all that different from my walking around in public wearing my leggings. Only the insecure or imature make negative comments, in my experience.

What color were your tights, what else did you have on?

[RichardA]

I grew up in a time when people dressed up to go to church, to visit people you didn't see every day, or almost any public occasion (unless it was something where you'd expect to get dirty, like a picnic.) People dressed up partly to "show respect" and partly to show themselves off to best advantage. Basically, you dressed up because you wanted the people who saw you out in public to think the best of you, and it mattered to you what they thought.

Me too, I always dress to impress and it annoys me when I'm in my kilt people come up and ask me why am I wearing my kilt is it a special day, I normally reply every day is special if you wake up in the morning.
Years ago we had our "Sunday best clothes", but today at church most females are in jeans or slacks and the men are no better in fact they look like there going to work and not to the house of God, to me it is out of repect is why you dress up.

[AMM]

I blame the news for a lot of what's going on today, the media yes that too, but mostly the news. It's warning everyone to "watch out, or be on the look" for certain people and warning people of the slight /remote possibility that "these" people are out and not to be trusted too much...

Not to let the people running the news departments off the hook, as they seem to delight in being such [explitive deleted]s, but if people weren't watching them all the time, their [yet another explitive deleted] wouldn't have as much of an effect.

At one time, there was not much to supply excitement in people's lives, so they'd come from miles around to watch a several-hour debate (with no sound system!), just for something interesting to do. Now there's TV (and now Internet), and people don't even need to get out of their chairs to get more excitement in one evening that our predecessors might get in a lifetime. And fear is a particularly easy way to get "excitement", as any bungee jumper can tell you. (Especially if the cord breaks )

It's like sugar: our hunter-gatherer ancestors had to go far and wide to find sweet things, like berries and such, and our bodies evolved to handle infrequent small doses of it. Now there's sugar in almost everything we eat, and we get so much it makes us sick.


My only hope is that we (as societies) will evolve to cope with this new toxin, the way the human race evolved to cope with widely available distilled alcoholic beverages (cf. the "Gin Epidemic" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin_Craze)

[Bri]

They're just black Nike 3/4 capris with some mesh on the back part of the calf for ventilation, and a useless key pocket in the back. As well I had on my new (week old) columbia titanium orangish rust color jacket which is the parka part that goes inside the shell.

I was in no mood to change after working out, I was just way too tired. I was served with absolutely no hesitation by anyone and had no problems either.

I've seen girls walk in to restaurants and stores in leggings (no workout required) and no one looks oddly at them, so I'm like, ok I'll do the same thing, it worked!

[Departed Member]

They're just black Nike 3/4 capris with some mesh on the back part of the calf for ventilation, and a useless key pocket in the back.

So they're just "cut-off, tight tr*users", right? Not that unusual at (say)the seaside or indeed, airport, regardless of gender? Some folk may tend to look/glance because, unless you're very slim, they can appear incongruous to the eye. But certainly, firmly in the "mens casual" category!

[crfriend]

Those are some very interesting points, AMM, and I think that what we're seeing is primarily fallout of the ever-evolving society we live in. I also sense a bit of "old school" versus "new way" thinking creeping into the equation as more folks chime in.

To be sure, looking sharp used to carry far more weight than it does now, and some of that may fall into the "I have respect for those around me, and I care what they think of me". When communities were more tightly-knit, what your peers -- townspeople -- thought of you would have held more importance than it does now; with the fractured community of today, where most people don't even work in the town they live in, what your neighbours think of you matters vastly less than if you're angling for employment from another "local". I'm not sure how things are playing out in the more rural parts today, but I suspect that even they are not immune to this phenomenon.

I think we're poorer for this, in many ways. Sure, we're better off in some regards, but a common theme I've been hearing in this thread is one of isolation, and that's never healthy. Also, I believe that the current, "screw 'em; I'm doing (wearing) what I want!" mentality is unhealthy as well. It's almost childish in its naivete, and whether one chooses to believe it or not, your actions do have a way of coming back to you.

Another problem with more formal attire is that it's expensive, and that's getting to be a real problem in some ports of the world; couple that with a decline in the number of venues where decent (read, "semi formal") attire is appropriate (in settings that the mere mortal can wisely afford), one can see economic reasons for the decline in "looking sharp" in addition to the cultural ones. Is the notion dead? I'm not sure just yet. Personally, I hope for a resurgence.

[Bri]

Merlin, your assumption is correct about the type I was wearing, even today when I went to the post office and then to have a key made at the Subaru dealer (it's free there, which makes me think Subaru is trying to change the way people think about service and parts at a dealership - trying to gain some of the marketshare in parts and service back) which turned to be a real non occurrance. The woman behind the desk was extremely nice and very helpful (even liked my dog) in getting me the part or telling me how to get it. No odd looks about what I had on, I suppose because maybe she's cool or Subaru just had a talk to their employees emphasizing that the customer has money, nomatter what they dress like, treat them like they're a very wealthy VIP.

At least that's how I would tell employees to act regarless of their personal feeling towards what the customer was wearing or looked like.

[knickerless]

Sorry I am of the opposite opinion. I do not dress up in 'my best' and don't think anyone should be judged by their appearance. Some years ago by my boss I was asked why I did not wear a suit at work and told him straight he could buy suits anywhere but it would not help him to find the right person for the right job. We agreed to differ on that point.
One of our computer programmers at that time used to walk about in a jumper that was more holes than jumper - but he was the best computer programmer I have ever encountered. When he left for pastures new they got some bloke in a nice suit that just did not understand computer programming.


Nick

[Departed Member]

At least that's how I would tell employees to act regarless of their personal feeling towards what the customer was wearing or looked like.

That's how it should be, Bri, that's exactly how it should be! The days of 'pickin' & choosin'' customers is slowly but surely, on the way out. I must admit, I'm always sceptical of what the "Suits" are trying to sell, whether as a manager or customer. So called "Power Dressing" is now being increasingly seen as 'negative', at least here in the UK. That Clinton woman would have no chance here, regardless of policy!

[AMM]

Sorry I am of the opposite opinion. I do not dress up in 'my best' and don't think anyone should be judged by their appearance.

I was at first going to agree that "no one should be judged by their appearance," and then I had an image of one of us in a skirt walking down a street near a football stadium and seeing a bunch of obviously drunk young men in the colors of the losing team with dark looks on their faces coming the other way. Would we advise him to "not judge by appearances" and keep on walking?

How we dress does tell people a lot about how we are relating to them. Nick, when you refuse to wear a suit, you are sending your boss and your coworkers a message about your attitude: you are the way you are, you aren't going to bend for anybody, and if they don't like it, they can find somebody else. The words of your posting make it pretty clear that that's your attitude. If you were working in Sales, there's no way you could meet your customers with that attitude. To be an effective salesman, you'd have to have a "the customer is always right" attitude, and then you wouldn't need your boss to order you to dress appropriately -- you would automatically dress to meet your customers' expectations (which might or might not mean a suit and tie.)

Or imagine showing up at a good friend's wedding in cut-off shorts and a dirty T-shirt with 4-letter words on it -- unless you have friends with a very unusual sense of style, they'd be pretty annoyed that you couldn't be bothered to make some effort to dress nicely.

A lot of people in my generation get hung up on the idea that "dresing up" means putting on some kind of uniform that Teh Evil Power Structure has ordained to oppress us. But especially away from work, that's not what it's about.

Actually, almost any clothing might count as "dressing nicely" For some people, it means full evening dress (tuxedo, et al.), whereas for others, it might mean a shirt and trousers with no holes. But it always means something that shows you have taken some effort. A century or so ago, a poor farmer's Sunday best was probably plainer and shabbier than a merchant's daily work clothes, but he was still "dressing up" when he put it on. And when we go Contra dancing, and the ladies put on their skirts, and I put on my Contra dancing skirt, and many of the other men pull their NEFFA T-shirts out of the back of the closet, we're all trying to show each other with how we dress that the Saturday night dance is Something Special.

And that's what's missing with the modern attitude of "all casual, all the time."

[Sarongman]

True, while nobody should be judged on their appearances, we do it all the time either consciously or unconsciously. I am of the old school and even put a crease in the legs of my bib overalls when ironing. A very military attitude. (and no I missed out on the draft and didn't go on a Gov't sposored trip to Vietnam) I have noticed that the younger generation will pull an item of clothing straight out of the done laundry. give it a shake and put it straight on! I try to match what I put on but, sometimes, am pulled up short by my S.O. who will say "That doesn't go with ---, I would suggest ---"

[knickerless]

I must clarify one or two things. First of all I am not in sales or would ever want to be - partly for reasons you have given. The job I did at the time was not in view of the public and I had been head-hunted by this person for my abilities and not my choice of suits.
I would not wear tee shirts or what ever for a wedding and the last wedding that I went to over 30 years ago I did wear a grey suit - nothing flashy but it was new and I was the groom anyway.
Going back to salesmen - I would not let their clothes influence my purchasing. I make my own mind up what I want to buy and where. I think many a useless and worthless item has been purchased at an over inflated price by listening to some jumped up salesman in a suit.

But as I say we are all entitled to own opinions and I would not let a few football fans influence my dress sense or lack of it.

Finally remember the internet is meant to be fun.


Nick

[crfriend]

A lot of people in my generation get hung up on the idea that "dresing up" means putting on some kind of uniform that Teh Evil Power Structure has ordained to oppress us. But especially away from work, that's not what it's about.

That's absolutely NOT what it's all about -- especially, as AMM points out, when we're off the clock. But, the notion, for some reason, sticks with us, and has also rubbed off on the younger generation as well. I'll freely admit to sharing a good chunk of AMM's thinking on the matter, and whether it's right or not, we do get judged by others on our appearance.

One of the reasons I tend to harp somewhat on making skirted rigs "believeable" for guys is that we will get looked at -- frequently askance -- and the first impression we project can be a "make or break" one. I'd rather it be the former than the latter; if I manage to pull something that elicits the latter response, I've not only failled myself but also every other chap who wants to wear a skirted garment.

I really think that the "all casual all the time" culture is totally bereft of imagination and interaction at any sort of level than a very selfish one. Anybody that has the guts to buck that should be applauded.

I'd like to finish this off, but I'm in the process of getting a migraine and my vision is going wonky making it impossible for me to read what I'm typing.