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rode_kater wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:09 pm most women wearing jeans and t-shirt wouldn't say they are crossdressing so they aren't.

Just a thought: what makes people think that you're cross-dressing is sometimes a matter of style. If you are ostentatiously dressing in a smart and formal way considered appropriate to the other sex, then you're cross-dressing (woman in white shirt, tailcoat, bow tie, laced shoes; man in silk gown, high heels, fishnet stockings: drag is the extreme end of this), but if you're just hanging out as though it was nothing unusual (woman in jeans and t-shirt, man in denim skirt and plain boots) then it is not cross-dressing, just move along, nothing to see here except someone wearing ordinary comfortable clothes.

Myopic Bookworm wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:25 pm

rode_kater wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:09 pm most women wearing jeans and t-shirt wouldn't say they are crossdressing so they aren't.

If you are ostentatiously dressing in a smart and formal way considered appropriate to the other sex, then you're cross-dressing (woman in white shirt, tailcoat, bow tie, laced shoes; man in silk gown, high heels, fishnet stockings: drag is the extreme end of this), but if you're just hanging out as though it was nothing unusual (woman in jeans and t-shirt, man in denim skirt and plain boots) then it is not cross-dressing, just move along, nothing to see here except someone wearing ordinary comfortable clothes.

True - but the double-standard for that is pretty huge - men have a narrow window of clothing expression they need to stay in, lest they be ridiculed, or thought of as a CD'er. That is to say - you have to be mighty specific about what women would have to wear to be considered a crossdresser, and the list is pretty short. But for a man they just need to don one feminine piece of garb, and they enter no-man's land, and might be labeled a certain way.

Coder wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:38 pm

Myopic Bookworm wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:25 pm

rode_kater wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:09 pm most women wearing jeans and t-shirt wouldn't say they are crossdressing so they aren't.

If you are ostentatiously dressing in a smart and formal way considered appropriate to the other sex, then you're cross-dressing (woman in white shirt, tailcoat, bow tie, laced shoes; man in silk gown, high heels, fishnet stockings: drag is the extreme end of this), but if you're just hanging out as though it was nothing unusual (woman in jeans and t-shirt, man in denim skirt and plain boots) then it is not cross-dressing, just move along, nothing to see here except someone wearing ordinary comfortable clothes.

True - but the double-standard for that is pretty huge - men have a narrow window of clothing expression they need to stay in, lest they be ridiculed, or thought of as a CD'er. That is to say - you have to be mighty specific about what women would have to wear to be considered a crossdresser, and the list is pretty short. But for a man they just need to don one feminine piece of garb, and they enter no-man's land, and might be labeled a certain way.

Thank you Coder. So give the whole thing a big boot and send it right out of the park where it belongs.

Myopic Bookworm wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 10:25 pmJust a thought: what makes people think that you're cross-dressing is sometimes a matter of style. If you are ostentatiously dressing in a smart and formal way considered appropriate to the other sex, then you're cross-dressing (woman in white shirt, tailcoat, bow tie, laced shoes; man in silk gown, high heels, fishnet stockings: drag is the extreme end of this), but if you're just hanging out as though it was nothing unusual (woman in jeans and t-shirt, man in denim skirt and plain boots) then it is not cross-dressing, just move along, nothing to see here except someone wearing ordinary comfortable clothes.

What, then, happens to the occasional guy who positively detests "casual" (or, even worse, "athleisure") and deliberately tries to dress a notch or two above those dreadful ideals? Does that make him a crossdresser, or just a smart-dressed man with an alternate sartorial sense of aesthetics?

crfriend wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:24 am just a smart-dressed man with an alternate sartorial sense of aesthetics?

In terms of compliments, it's the best I have ever received.
With slight variation, on multiple occasions too.
"Casual" mode rarely elicits a response of any kind.
Steve.

Speaking about.crossdressers: Most cross dressers try to make.their voices sound like women. I'm going the opposite way: There is a choir anthem with my church choir where the second bass part descends down to C2, two ledger lines below the bass staff. As I'm the only choir member who sings second bass and can even think of reaching such a deep pitch, I'm practicing singing that pitch moderately loudly I have no problem singing D2 moderately loudly, but C2 is something of a challenge for me to project.

John

JohnH wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:49 pm Speaking about.crossdressers: Most cross dressers try to make.their voices sound like women. I'm going the opposite way: There is a choir anthem with my church choir where the second bass part descends down to C2, two ledger lines below the bass staff. As I'm the only choir member who sings second bass and can even think of reaching such a deep pitch, I'm practicing singing that pitch moderately loudly I have no problem singing D2 moderately loudly, but C2 is something of a challenge for me to project.

John

My choir (West Wickham Singers) will be performing Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas. There are bracketed notes on the last bar for the basses: D2. If I have a sore throat, I can just about Ooh down there at ppp!)

I find that if I have a cold with phlegm my deepest register is negatively affected.

John

There is a hymn in the 1982 Episcopal Hymnal, "Now thank we all our God" where the bass part descends down to Eb2 a few times. I can sing that pitch loudly. So here I am with.the appearance and attire of a woman singing the bass part. I would say that Eb2 separates the basses from the baritones.

The reason for the deep notes is Mendelssohn wrote the harmonization in the key of F with one flat. That results in the highest pitch of F5 (treble voices) which would be too high for the.congregation to sing the.melody. So in the hymnal the pitch was lowered a whole step to the key of Eb with 3 flats.

So much for me trying to imitate a woman with my voice. As I have said before, I wish men dolled up in feminine attire would present themselves as MEN instead of imaginary women with feminine names. Only then can men break away from hackneyed obligatory coat and tie outfits for men's formal wear.

John

JohnH wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2023 7:15 pm I would say that Eb2 separates the basses from the baritones.

I can usually get down to Eb, but not very loudly. I once had to sing in the Rachmaninov Vespers, and bought myself a small bottle of vodka on the way to the concert to assist with the bottom notes.

The anthem, "Now Lettest Thou Thy Servant Depart in Peace" in Rachmaninoff's Vespers has a descending line which ends at Bb1 for second bass. And of course unaccompanied choirs drift downwards so the actual pitch would be A1, 3 ledger lines below the bass staff. So Myopic Bookworm, your bottle of vodka could not be too small. If I had to face that task I would have to drink plenty of whiskey the night before.

John

One of the hardest notes I’ve had to sing is at the end of “Begin the day with God” by Eric ball. In typical bass-part style, the song ends with a V-I interval. The last note is Eb2, ff on the word “ring”!

For crossdressing to become mainstream for men; men and women would have to become equal. Even though a lot of lip service is paid to men and women being equal, it is only lip service and is not true. We live in a patriarchal society and women are consider inferior. Therefore men wearing women's clothing will always be considered to be a step-down from society's perspective. Sad but true, Equality between men and women will not likely be achieved in our lifetimes. Even though biological women are superior to men, the patriarchy will never acknowledge that fact because they want to remain in power and dominate women. We live in a society where the tall white Christian male rules and makes the rules.

jamie001 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 8:14 pm<snip> Even though biological women are superior to men, the patriarchy will never acknowledge
that fact because they want to remain in power and dominate women. <snip>

I've underlined a key fallacy in your statement.
About the ONLY WAY WOMEN ARE SUPERIOR is that they give birth to our children.
They endure the pain of child birth, which men do not have to endure.
Women are already equal to men in about 99% of things we do. A great example is Hedy Lamarr. She was an
Austro-Hungarian-born American actress and technology inventor. She was a film star during Hollywood's Golden Age.

Wikipedia wrote:At the beginning of World War II, she and avant-garde composer George Antheil developed a radio guidance system for Allied
torpedoes that used spread spectrum and frequency hopping technology to defeat the threat of jamming by the Axis powers.

Mod Hat-ON
You've been given, many times, strong suggestions that your behavior is out of line.
Men and women ARE equal in a multitude of aspects. You must stop this kind of behavior.

WARNING: Any further claims - made by you - that women are superior to men, will result
in your being placed on Moderated Status.

Mod Hat - OFF

Uncle Al
Admin Staff

Uncle Al,

The story about Hedy Lamar is a favorite of mine. She was brilliant and invented frequency hopping and that concept is used today in many communication protocols. I used to be of the opinion that men and women wear equals but that opinion changed over the years with mass shootings especially with the killing on children in school shootings. I hope that members here can respect my opinion on this topic because if you do some research on all of the America school shootings, the perpetrators are overwhelmingly men and boys that act out with violence. Anyway in the future I will refrain from making these statements because I now understand that the members see can't accept the truth regarding the perpetrators of the school shootings.

Regards,

Jamie