skirtcafe.org

STEVIE wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:07 am Sure, but men wearing "skirts" in ancient times wasn't real life either.

I suppose that depends on how you define skirts.

Dust wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:15 pm

STEVIE wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:07 am Sure, but men wearing "skirts" in ancient times wasn't real life either.

I suppose that depends on how you define skirts.

It's true that it's impossible to compare how we see skirts and how people of the past saw them. I think they were called "skirts" - but they didn't have the modern / western interpretation of "female-only" and so there just wasn't a concept of "skirts are for women but men will be bold and wear skirts regardless".

I think what a lot of writers are doing when they say that "men used to wear skirts" is to get across the notion that there isn't anything inherently feminine/female about a skirt. Men wore that garment when it was considered unisex (although that is even a misnomer - there have always been style differences between male/female clothes even within skirted garments), and the only thing stopping them today are modern social norms.

Dust wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:15 pm

STEVIE wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 3:07 am Sure, but men wearing "skirts" in ancient times wasn't real life either.

I suppose that depends on how you define skirts.

If we're speaking broadly, then there's no ambiguity to it. Skirts are skirts; if it's a garment that you put both your legs in — it's a skirt, regardless of etymology or cultural/historical differences.

TSH wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:56 pmIf we're speaking broadly, then there's no ambiguity to it. Skirts are skirts; if it's a garment that you put both your legs in — it's a skirt, regardless of etymology or cultural/historical differences.

Correct, and there will always be somebody to "correct" you on the matter. When referring to historical time, there's a reason why I use verbiage such as "skirt-like" or "skirt-styled" garments. It's to sidestep the inevitable "correction" from those who "know better than we do". So, I'll call the Scottish garb a kilt, and I'll call the Greek one a fustanella -- its proper name -- simply to avoid hassle. The Greek version is vastly more ancient than the Scots number which dates to the Victorian era, and points up the history. Then there are togas in various lengths and variants. There is history in play here, and we ignore it needlessly. There are also other cultures.

We just need to be careful in how we refer to it.

crfriend wrote: ↑Sat Aug 20, 2022 12:19 am

TSH wrote: ↑Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:56 pmIf we're speaking broadly, then there's no ambiguity to it. Skirts are skirts; if it's a garment that you put both your legs in — it's a skirt, regardless of etymology or cultural/historical differences.

Correct, and there will always be somebody to "correct" you on the matter. When referring to historical time, there's a reason why I use verbiage such as "skirt-like" or "skirt-styled" garments. It's to sidestep the inevitable "correction" from those who "know better than we do". So, I'll call the Scottish garb a kilt, and I'll call the Greek one a fustanella -- its proper name -- simply to avoid hassle. The Greek version is vastly more ancient than the Scots number which dates to the Victorian era, and points up the history. Then there are togas in various lengths and variants. There is history in play here, and we ignore it needlessly. There are also other cultures.

We just need to be careful in how we refer to it.

It’s all just semantics. Reminds me of a story I think attributed to Abraham Lincoln. Campaigning he met a man who hated him and they got into a discussion on semantics. Lincoln asked the man, if you call a sheep’s tail a leg, how many legs does the sheep have? Five replied the man to which Lincoln corrected him. It’s four, calling a tail a leg, still makes it just a tail.

I like this story because it shows how stupid semantics can be and how stupid it can make us be. We argue over silly definitions mostly because words have power when we let them have that power. I admit I feel better wearing a kilt than a skirt right now regardless of whether it’s the exact same garment. The mere act of being able to call it a kilt, relaxes my inner fear of external ridicule. Cause kilts are for men and skirts are for women and what’s the true difference again between a kilt and a skirt?

Our world will be better off when we just accept each other, stop complaining about things that don’t matter and focus on things that do matter.