Re: Votes Matter ... or Do They?
Posted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:45 am
Goddammit Carl, this damn forum kicked me off again somewhere in the middle of my writing my post. And no I didn't think I was going to write such a long piece, but it didn't give me any indication I wasn't logged in until I tried to submit it! Is there some kind of time limit on this thing?
signed,
One VERY Unhappy Camper
Suffice it to say:
Tor, I didn't conflate your two mechanisms; you're still conflating popular discontent with the available candidates with discontent with the offices and ignoring the practical problems that would come from having to rerun an election that happened to have 2 candidates that weren't popular enough to beat "None of the Above."
Carl, the facts of this year's election refutes your contentions.
Whoever it was pressing for a Constitutional Convention: that's only one update mechanism in our Constitution. The one that's kept it fresh is the Amendment process that was put into play as soon as the Constitution passed. Remember grade school civics, the first 10 amendments are referred to as the Bill of Rights. In fact, 12 were proposed but only 10 were ratified by the states in time.
As far as the Civil War changing our conception of our country from it being a federation of states to a unified whole, the same was said about the War of 1812 (see Six Frigates). The AA on the shoulder flash of the US Army's 82nd Airborne Div. dates back to its organization for WWI. At that time, most of the Army's divisions were organized by the states and mobilized for emergencies. The recruits who compromised the 82nd took as a point of pride that they came from all over the US so they called themselves the "All American" division. During the Depression my father worked all over the South because there was more construction going on there. One night a fellow electrician invited him home for dinner. The other man's daughter looked Dad up and down and told her father, "Daddy he doesn't look any different than anyone else, I thought you told us you bringing a Damn Yankee home for dinner!" My Mother worked in Washington, DC during the Second World War where she met a number of Southern belles who told her they didn't know "Damn Yankee" was 2 word until they moved to Washington. To this day when someone doesn't like a federal law they're likely to holler "State's rights!"
So which crisis was it that unified us as a nation? Permanently? None of the above. This country's a work in progress and always will be.
It may look at times like an oligarchy, it sure did during the Gilded Era. But working the levers of government Theodore Roosevelt put an end to that and yes, he was a Republican and they were as dedicated to maintaining the perogatives of the elite then as they are now.
Carl, the excess power of the current moneyed classes will be curtailed in time because as I said before, dollars don't vote, people do. This year, a critical mass of both Republicans and Democrats are much more than angry with the current situation. The voices for change in both parties have identified "the elite" as the villain.
By November 9 I predict the upstart Republicans backing Trump will succeed in crippling the Grand Old Party. The upstart Democrats have already succeeded in putting their stamp on the platform and I doubt they will leave it at that. The elected officials in between those two poles will have no choice but to get busy addressing the real problems of the country like good jobs, affordable higher education, affordable health care, global warming, etc. rather than finding yet another tax break for the ultra-rich.
signed,
One VERY Unhappy Camper
Suffice it to say:
Tor, I didn't conflate your two mechanisms; you're still conflating popular discontent with the available candidates with discontent with the offices and ignoring the practical problems that would come from having to rerun an election that happened to have 2 candidates that weren't popular enough to beat "None of the Above."
Carl, the facts of this year's election refutes your contentions.
Whoever it was pressing for a Constitutional Convention: that's only one update mechanism in our Constitution. The one that's kept it fresh is the Amendment process that was put into play as soon as the Constitution passed. Remember grade school civics, the first 10 amendments are referred to as the Bill of Rights. In fact, 12 were proposed but only 10 were ratified by the states in time.
As far as the Civil War changing our conception of our country from it being a federation of states to a unified whole, the same was said about the War of 1812 (see Six Frigates). The AA on the shoulder flash of the US Army's 82nd Airborne Div. dates back to its organization for WWI. At that time, most of the Army's divisions were organized by the states and mobilized for emergencies. The recruits who compromised the 82nd took as a point of pride that they came from all over the US so they called themselves the "All American" division. During the Depression my father worked all over the South because there was more construction going on there. One night a fellow electrician invited him home for dinner. The other man's daughter looked Dad up and down and told her father, "Daddy he doesn't look any different than anyone else, I thought you told us you bringing a Damn Yankee home for dinner!" My Mother worked in Washington, DC during the Second World War where she met a number of Southern belles who told her they didn't know "Damn Yankee" was 2 word until they moved to Washington. To this day when someone doesn't like a federal law they're likely to holler "State's rights!"
So which crisis was it that unified us as a nation? Permanently? None of the above. This country's a work in progress and always will be.
It may look at times like an oligarchy, it sure did during the Gilded Era. But working the levers of government Theodore Roosevelt put an end to that and yes, he was a Republican and they were as dedicated to maintaining the perogatives of the elite then as they are now.
Carl, the excess power of the current moneyed classes will be curtailed in time because as I said before, dollars don't vote, people do. This year, a critical mass of both Republicans and Democrats are much more than angry with the current situation. The voices for change in both parties have identified "the elite" as the villain.
By November 9 I predict the upstart Republicans backing Trump will succeed in crippling the Grand Old Party. The upstart Democrats have already succeeded in putting their stamp on the platform and I doubt they will leave it at that. The elected officials in between those two poles will have no choice but to get busy addressing the real problems of the country like good jobs, affordable higher education, affordable health care, global warming, etc. rather than finding yet another tax break for the ultra-rich.