skirtcafe.org

crfriend wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 5:42 pm just not one festooned with tattoos, swears like a sailor, smokes like a chimney, and is unconcerned with those around her.

Add to that the "previous" they all seem to have with the same type of antisocial, thoroughly unsavoury individual, and usually with a souvenir or two to show for it, and I could have written this myself.

Freedom of expression, or a modern relationship? Perhaps not such a difficult choice.

Grok wrote: ↑Mon Jun 19, 2023 4:46 pm I understand that David's Bridal has gone out of business. Noticed comments regarding individual stores going out of business, stores that specialized in wedding dresses. Also, the jewelry industry being severely impacted.

Is it that the wedding business is going down, or the marriage business? Because in my experience, the only reason people near me have gotten married is the legal benefits: automatic acknowledgement of children, visitation rights, inheritance rights, etc. Yes, you can get all those things without marrying but it's much harder and more expensive, whereas a basic marriage with two witnesses at the local council office is a small administration fee.

Most of them did not do a big wedding ceremony with the white dress and lots of people because it's too damn expensive. At most a small dinner with a few friends. In some cases they didn't tell anyone at all until months later. Yes, there are people who will do the big wedding thing, but I can totally understand if that becomes less common. Why spend money on a big wedding when you can't even save for a down payment on a house to live in?

I'd be happy to see the wedding industry contract a bit. One factor in the decline of marriage is that too many people think they have to spend shedloads of money on a stupidly expensive ceremony and party when they could just have a few friends over and get married with out so much ridiculous fuss.

My first sister-in-law was very keen on a wedding, and got married in a dress that looked like a heap of meringue. What she apparently hadn't reckoned with was that she was then expected to live with the bloke (my brother) on a permanent basis. It lasted less than two years. Neither set of parents was surprised.

A comment by Mouse made me think about a possible period of repression. It is conceivable that the severity could vary.

In an optimistic scenario, kilting survives.

In an even harsher scenario, kilting is extinguished, and MIS is delayed for a very, very long time.

Myopic Bookworm wrote: ↑Tue Jun 20, 2023 2:44 pm I'd be happy to see the wedding industry contract a bit. One factor in the decline of marriage is that too many people think they have to spend shedloads of money on a stupidly expensive ceremony and party when they could just have a few friends over and get married with out so much ridiculous fuss.

My first sister-in-law was very keen on a wedding, and got married in a dress that looked like a heap of meringue. What she apparently hadn't reckoned with was that she was then expected to live with the bloke (my brother) on a permanent basis. It lasted less than two years. Neither set of parents was surprised.

A large portion of the population (the majority neurotype) just does whatever is most commonly done by others, and does not appear to be capable of acting independently.

Grok wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2026 3:16 am A comment by Mouse made me think about a possible period of repression. It is conceivable that the severity could vary.

I am not sure what I said, but here in the UK, I think we have a window of opportunity to freely skirt in public. Over the last few decades we have had various equality laws passed, meaning it is illegal to discriminate against a person on everything from sex, religion, sexual orientation and many more. HR departments in companies are very aware of these laws, so it is very un professional to use discriminatory language or actions.

In addition we have had various woke issues and eccentric celebrities wash through the culture. We have also had many external cultures come into country, bringing many different ways of dressing onto our streets for both men and women. It is not unusual to see a man in a long dress like garment on the street or a woman in a black cloak with just her eyes showing.

So into this mix you have men like me, whether I am in a standard denim skirt or a full latex outfit with tall heels, I pass as just an interesting eccentric man going about his own business. In my business, I am accepted as a creative designer, who will make the tech work, even on the roughest of building sites. I am amazed that I live as I do. I have some problems with some of my family, but I never have to resort to trousers, since I make money in a skirt.

How long will this "Window of opportunity" last and is it '"closing". I do not see any sign of it closing and with part of the UK having a national dress including a skirt for men and many cultures in the country having men in dress like garments, it would be very difficult to draft a law that just stopped me from wearing a skirt, while letting others continue.

Mouse wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2026 2:51 am I do not see any sign of it closing and with part of the UK having a national dress including a skirt for men and many cultures in the country having men in dress like garments, it would be very difficult to draft a law that just stopped me from wearing a skirt, while letting others continue.

Sorry Mouse, but I am going to go pedantic.
If push came to shove there could be a statutory definition of what constitutes allowable gender based clothing.
The garments you are referring to are by definition masculine so allowed.
In a draconian scenario, there could be sumptuary laws passed prescribing specific garments based on gender.
Admittedly, highly unlikely, but impossible?
Could even be legal in Scotland, but not in England and vice-versa.
I certainly have no wish to be around if the conditions arose that would bring these things to pass.
Steve.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2026 12:28 am

Mouse wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2026 2:51 am I do not see any sign of it closing and with part of the UK having a national dress including a skirt for men and many cultures in the country having men in dress like garments, it would be very difficult to draft a law that just stopped me from wearing a skirt, while letting others continue.

Sorry Mouse, but I am going to go pedantic.
If push came to shove there could be a statutory definition of what constitutes allowable gender based clothing.
The garments you are referring to are by definition masculine so allowed.
In a draconian scenario, there could be sumptuary laws passed prescribing specific garments based on gender.
Admittedly, highly unlikely, but impossible?
Could even be legal in Scotland, but not in England and vice-versa.
I certainly have no wish to be around if the conditions arose that would bring these things to pass.
Steve.

Well guys; "Prediction" betting seems to the latest hot "Thing' -- Polymarket probably has some odds for you! I'll take Mouse's train simply because I've swallowed more bad news than I can stomach right now. Since I'm 'in it' my money is on the skirt's survival -- and your neck of the woods seems to have a bit of sanity left -- the rest of us need more of you. So I'm rooting for you.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2026 12:28 am

Mouse wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2026 2:51 am I do not see any sign of it closing and with part of the UK having a national dress including a skirt for men and many cultures in the country having men in dress like garments, it would be very difficult to draft a law that just stopped me from wearing a skirt, while letting others continue.

.......Sorry Mouse, but I am going to go pedantic......
....If push came to shove there could be a statutory definition of what constitutes allowable gender based clothing.........

No worry on the pedantic, we like that.....However the law is also pedantic and for a law to be enforceable it has to be clear. I just don't think you could draft a law based on what you label a piece of cloth connected by stitching to another pieces of cloth. For one thing half the female population considers anything male labeled as theirs anyway.

I think the only way would be something like North Korea where the state prescribes the clothes made and what each person should wear. If we get to that then wearing skirts is probably the least of our worries.

There is definitely a case for saying "what you think about you bring about"

Everything we do begins by thinking about it.
If we post negative "could happen here" thoughts about bigots using the law to stop men wearing skirts, then a man in a skirt on his way out of the door might think to himself "maybe next week".

You might say "it could also make him more determined" but what is more powerful? Fear or optimisim?

I wouldn't be too complacent. The English have banned the wearing of the kilt once before.

I've been saying this for awhile, don't get connected to lgbtq in any way if you want manly skirting to be a thing, I would say be vocal about not being one of them, now time may be running short.

timemeddler wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2026 6:44 pm I've been saying this for awhile, don't get connected to lgbtq in any way if you want manly skirting to be a thing, I would say be vocal about not being one of them, now time may be running short.

But if you're one of them, then this advice won't be helpful.

Myopic Bookworm wrote: ↑Fri Mar 20, 2026 10:46 pm

timemeddler wrote: ↑Thu Mar 19, 2026 6:44 pm I've been saying this for awhile, don't get connected to lgbtq in any way if you want manly skirting to be a thing, I would say be vocal about not being one of them, now time may be running short.

But if you're one of them, then this advice won't be helpful.

TM we have acceptance for men in skirts. People now accept that the population is diverse. We can freely go about our business in a skirt or a dress it's our choice what we choose to wear. Yes there are some corners of society where it is still frowned upon. Ok you can't have everything and it will take time.
Yet you are now advocating what we won't accept? And this will improve acceptance for MIS? Who are we to now pass judgement on others?

I think it is very specific as to how lgbtqia+ is accepted in your local area.

In most of the UK, we have very good acceptance of lgbtqia+ and many of my friends would identify with one of the symbols. Yes I am a standard CIS man, but since I wear skirts, have piecing, heels, bright colours, and many other weird bits and ideas, I fit in with, enjoy and marvel at all the differences the human being can present. It is very similar in the kink community where every body is on a journey to their happy place and part of that is being accepted by friends and others.

I get why in some jurisdictions it is seems better to put hard separations between certain minorities. However in the bigger picture, where freedoms are under threat, once one minority has been squashed, yours may be next. So it may be better to join together to pitch for all to be free?

As I say, I live and work in the UK and in 2026 and I am mainly free to be me. I obviously have no idea for the locations you are all in and the best way forward for each of you.