skirtcafe.org

I am in agreement here with everyone. However it is happening, its not helping.
If feel like it's a put up job. The drag queen artist has been recorded on line promoting 'love has no age'. That's fine between consenting adults but the take away in this instance is a seedier image for the artist.
Was he put there to stir up hatred? It seems like a ridiculous situation that could easily have been avoided. It could have been Dad's in dresses story time. Men with families promoting equality. Instead the image is gender bending sex pests with kids sat in their lap reading them bedtime stories.
I despair.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:00 pm It could have been Dad's in dresses story time.

If it were "dads in dresses story time" the same damned people would be out there raising hell, and we all know it.

Look at that, look in his eyes. That is nothing but pure rage and hatred.

It's got nothing to do with kids, it never has, and it never will.

It's got everything to do with a human male [Dee] not staying in his god-damned lane and knowing his place.

I was raised with people like that, I know what rots their soul. I've breathed the same air they have.

Again, that's nothing but pure hate.

moonshadow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:07 pmAgain, that's nothing but pure hate.

Hate exists. We just need to recognize it when we see it in action. Hate is also very different from misunderstanding or not understanding something; it;s the total rejection of everything that one does not innately believe because he was indoctrinated that way. The main problem with hate, though, is that it's one of the very few emotions males are "allowed" to possess (or at least display) in the modern world -- and that needs to change.

Because of my sartorial style, and unorthodox manner of thinking about things, I am absolutely certain that there are folks out there who will hate me. And that's just the way it is. The reasonable ones, I can win over fairly easily using wit, logic, and clear thought. The dolts I never will -- and there are more dolts than there are clear-thinking rational people. I still recall the time at the place I hang out at in Leominster at week-ends where early on in my presence there I got pointedly asked about my opinion on same-sex marriage. I was wearing a skirt at the time, and the place went a little quiet. I thought about it for a moment, and said I have no problem with it -- and then stated the reasoning, which blew people's minds. Nobody was expecting an argument that framed the matter not as a religious dogma position, but rather placed it strictly into the realm of Contract Law.

1) The licence to marry is granted by a secular government, not a religious body with possibly strange beliefs. This has always been the case here.
2) The fundamental reason for marriage is preservation of family wealth and to attempt to ensure stability for children.
3) What right does the Government have to tell me who I can enter into a contract with? Do they do this when one calls a plumber?

Nobody could come up with a cogent rebuttal to that, and we all went back to our beers. After that, I developed several friendships there that have lasted quite a few years indeed. For all I know, it may still be being talked about simply because it was such a different line of thinking that nobody else had considered.

So, let's not make things harder on ourselves than we necessarily need to. The fact I'm wearing a skirt has no relevance to my sexuality, my "alignment", or anything else prurient. They're a style I happen to like and find comfortable. Are they for everything and anything? No. But they're a delightful change from Levis and Dockers. And you know something else? At the end of the day they come off and get folded or hung up. Try doing that with a piercing or a tattoo!

moonshadow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 3:59 pm And thus, the line has been drawn.

The point being, if they're bragging about orgies and encouraging pedophilia at the book readings, then maybe that might be taking it a bit too far. But some one off comment, made in the past, without thinking about the long term ramifications? Eh.. kinda weak in my opinion.

I don't think that's happening at most of these events, though some disturbing videos have been posted in the past at drag performances with children that were - well let's just say unsavory at "best" (the one that comes to mind was a drag performer "grinding" with a child on stage, though I really don't want to look that one up). I realize this is essentially "one bad egg - and you blame them all?" mentality - but it's not an isolated incident.

I usually try to get to the source of what someone wrote, as context is most of the time lost or distorted. However, there's also a certain amount of research I'm unwilling to do, and in this case it's track down the "offensive" tweets and judge them in the context of what was said - I'll put that on laziness of the author of the article for not citing the exact tweets (if they still exist).

Bottom line: This is one profession where the people doing "adult drag" and "drag artists reading books" tend to overlap. Do we have hookers read books about inclusivity? What about mobsters reading crime books? My point being, drag artists are known to perform burlesquely at adult entertainment venues. I have never been to one, so I have no idea what happens, but I presume it's of a sexual nature. I'm not going to say consenting adults can't do those things. I am going to draw a line at, however, mixing the two worlds with children. If your profession involves adult entertainment... don't clean it up for kids and pretend it has no tie to your other life. Again - do we do that for any other adult industry? And yes, "unfortunately" I see drag in most contexts as an adult industry.

At the end of the day - I feel it's up to the parents to decide whether they take their kids to these events, and I'm not going to protest them as much as it bugs me.

Coder wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:50 pmAt the end of the day - I feel it's up to the parents to decide whether they take their kids to these events, and I'm not going to protest them as much as it bugs me.

And it's also up to various venues to take a better look at things like perceptions before choosing something that looks "politically correct". This one, face it, was self-inflicted. Somebody was asleep at the switch. In football terms, it was an "own goal".

crfriend wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:57 pm

Coder wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 4:50 pmAt the end of the day - I feel it's up to the parents to decide whether they take their kids to these events, and I'm not going to protest them as much as it bugs me.

And it's also up to various venues to take a better look at things like perceptions before choosing something that looks "politically correct". This one, face it, was self-inflicted. Somebody was asleep at the switch. In football terms, it was an "own goal".

100% agreed - but we don't "control" the administrators except through elections, so the only real "control" we have is over our kids, and only until they are adults. And even then, control is not absolute - so it's instilling values in them you hope they will continue with in adulthood.

moonshadow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:55 pm On the other hand, I can see why religion exist in the first place, the thought of leaving this hell hole and spending eternity in a place where people actually get along is indeed appealing.

Too bad it's a fairy tale.

I'm not saying I'm any better. No. I'm just ashamed. I wish there was a workable solution, but their isn't.

Moon, I care about you. You've had some hard experiences. I don't want to offend, but bringing in religion is against the forum rules for a good reason. I can respond with a lot of evidence for a loving God who is active in this world and how the problem is that people reject God's ways and ... BUT I think this is not the place for that debate.

Jim wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 5:57 pm

moonshadow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 2:55 pm On the other hand, I can see why religion exist in the first place, the thought of leaving this hell hole and spending eternity in a place where people actually get along is indeed appealing.

Too bad it's a fairy tale.

I'm not saying I'm any better. No. I'm just ashamed. I wish there was a workable solution, but their isn't.

Moon, I care about you. You've had some hard experiences. I don't want to offend, but bringing in religion is against the forum rules for a good reason. I can respond with a lot of evidence for a loving God who is active in this world and how the problem is that people reject God's ways and ... BUT I think this is not the place for that debate.

Jim, I wish everyone in the world had at least half the heart you have.

I apologize that my comment has likely came off very harsh towards people like yourself who I know genuinely live their life to perform God's good work. I can only appeal that you understand, I'm not angry with God or Christ... I'm angry with religion.

Coder, I ask in all seriousness:

If a hypothetical "drag queen", or better yet, just a person dressed up like a drag queen wanted to read to children, but otherwise had a squeaky clean record. No weird comments about sexual grooming, no orgies, the person is basically a model citizen, feeds the homeless, volunteers for Habitat, goes to church every Sunday, never even been to a "gay bar" or an actual adult drag performance... but just has a certain fashion preference for dressing in bright glittery dresses and reading to children, would you feel the same way?

I remind you that over a hundred years ago, even showing an ankle was quite scandalous.

If we're just trying to legislate morality, understand that children have been exposed to sexualizing content ever since the printing press was invented, likely even before that too, just not mass produced. From your granddaddy's Hustlers stuffed under his mattress to the first dot com porn sites, to modern day social networking sites that children everywhere freely access... Even in what was considered "wholesome" back in "American's moral pinnacle"... https://youtu.be/Lpg-w2W1-GI

You can't stop this. Nobody can. You can ban Dee from every library in the world, but they can still read online and have a following of children if they want to watch and their parents consent (allow them the technology to view it)

Prohibition doesn't work. Never has, never will. You only create an underground. At least out in the open, the public at large can keep an eye on things.

PS: Just so you know, actual drag queen performances at adult bars ARE VERY adult oriented. I know, I've been to one. But again, it was a gay night club, NOT a public library.

Here's another example of how things become normalized, in this case it's cartoons (which most people assume are for children), but it could be applied to everything, including men who wear clothing intended for women.

https://youtu.be/c7NcJjnYQTA

He mentions The Simpsons, and it strikes me, I can remember vaguely back in 1989 when the show came out, whenever I visited my grandma on dad's side, "smut" like that was STRICTLY forbidden in her house. I was eight years old. By the time I was 10, my ultra conservative, right wing father and I were laughing it up in our own home every week when a new episode would air on Fox21.

Even so, shows like Southpark can get to be a little too much for me. Some of the episodes are whitty and funny, some of them in my view are just trash unfit for anyone of any age, but the shows continue on regardless.

I know how to handle something on TV that I don't like... I turn the channel or turn it off. I also know how to handle something in meat space I don't like... I walk away and try to mind my own business.

Yes, I generally don't have a problem with what Dee is doing, and I think we'd all do well to tread lightly when siding with authoritarian "moral police", for today it is the drag queens, tomorrow it is all trans-women and nonbinary people, tomorrow it is the us (the members of skirtcafe and men that wear skirts in general).

Don't think for a second these [moral crusaders] are your friends and won't come after you. Coder, Carl, Stu, you all live and move about in highly liberal areas compared to where I'm at, I'm in the company of some of the most conservative authoritarian people in the most "reddest" part of the nation, and I can tell you first hand, they are NOT our allies. And given the choice, we would be exterminated. Yes you read that right, I have spoken to people who actually advocate for "open season" on anyone not like them.

If you ask them (and I have), we're all just a bunch of child raping faggots. (their words, not mine)

moonshadow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:33 pm If a hypothetical "drag queen", or better yet, just a person dressed up like a drag queen wanted to read to children, but otherwise had a squeaky clean record. No weird comments about sexual grooming, no orgies, the person is basically a model citizen, feeds the homeless, volunteers for Habitat, goes to church every Sunday, never even been to a "gay bar" or an actual adult drag performance... but just has a certain fashion preference for dressing in bright glittery dresses and reading to children, would you feel the same way?

Not if it was just a "man in a dress" but I would object if that person added prosthetic body parts, was wearing tight clothing revealing a bulge, etc...

But my objection would be a personal objection - I'm not out there protesting, or even "hating" drag queens... I just have a lot of concern.

I had a longer reply that was lost due to being logged out while I was replying... hitting the back button reset the post submission unfortunately. It's not really worth trying to retype from memory.

I wrote a long post submitted it and it's vanished. I couldn't rewrite it if I tried.
I did however come to a conclusion in my own mind.

The event could have been legitimately, peacefully protested as inappropriate for kids. It was ambushed by the far right and the trans exclusionary radical feminists who used the protest to stir up fear and further their own ends which was to further portray trans women as sick.

Even though I'm bald. When people see me in a skirts and they think I'm trans. If the trans community is damaged I get damaged just because I wear a skirt.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 10:30 pm The event could have been legitimately, peacefully protested as inappropriate for kids. It was ambushed by the far right and the trans exclusionary radical feminists who used the protest to stir up fear and further their own ends which was to further portray trans women as sick.

I don't understand shouting/angry protests. In my opinion it just sours the mood towards whatever the protestors are opposing. Like... if you want people to support you, maybe act like adults?

moonshadow wrote: ↑Sat Feb 11, 2023 6:20 pm I apologize that my comment has likely came off very harsh towards people like yourself who I know genuinely live their life to perform God's good work. I can only appeal that you understand, I'm not angry with God or Christ... I'm angry with religion.

Thank you for the kind words. Apology accepted with no hard feelings. There is much evil done in the name of religion, so I can understand the feeling.