What am I REALLY wanting.

[Peter v]

I appreciate your candidness, Peter! Your invective is, by all accounts, most compelling. However, I do not regard your premise that what you refer to as "drab" is at the bottom of a scaled of, shall we call it, 'skirtedness"? (I'm assuming that "Skirt Valhalla" to be 'frilly, flowery and flouncy!, by the way!). It is purely an option that transcribes to 'masculine'. In 'feminist' terms, it is actually at the pinnacle! In pure 'skirt' terms, it, as you rightly say, is probably no better than any other. But in 'man' terms, it, based on contemporary perception, is 'that most likely to be generally acceptable' as 'menswear'. Whether that 'acceptance' proves to be family, friend or workmate, it is, I feel, at the crux of extending that level (of mutual acceptance) to society in general.

Although it wouldn't 'bother' most of us here personally, the choice of immediate 'extreme-ism' is, I'm convinced, in fact detrimental to the perceived cause, at this stage in time. If "Tr*user-ism" is, as you acknowledge, indeed "drab" - when worn by either gender, I would readily concur. Women-kind has been subjected (subjugated, even) to unbelievable pressures to don tr*users over the second half of the last century. I know, particularly from the experiences of my own mother, wife and female friends, how the 'feminazis' have attempted to over-run the various 'feminists' causes and effectively force women into bi-furcation. Similar elements in society wish to crush any attempt by men to adopt skirts as a 'lifestyle' choice - as men.

Now, I don't do "drab", but I do do 'black' if we are to tread the 'fashion road' (which I heartily despise!), for the same reason as many women do. If you look, as I do, rather like a slightly slimmer version of "Jabba the Hutt", then even the "fashion gurus" seem agreed on this one! The 'denim' road suggests pockets, belt loops & flies - top of the tree with most blokes - something to aspire to - top 'box', in fact!

Anyway, thanks for bringing much life to the discussions here, Peter - hope to see you at the "Airbasis Leeuwarden" Open Day some time!

First, I live very near the basis, only some four km's away!!!! and go every time it is held! If you come over, pm me, and we can meet.
Google Stiens (Where I live) in google Earth.

Secondly, Much womens fashion is black and grey at the moment, so "top"at the moment. no duscussion.
Yes, denim and other neutral, straight lined, uncomplicated skirts go down well for most men. That is their top of the bill, in "acceptable men's skirts". For them and even if they themselves would wish other skirts, for the people around them.

It is only when relating to men's fashion, and the full scope of what is possible with skirts, that then the denim and simple black skirts are very near the men's fashion limitations.

As for skirts alone, all soorts, just put all options in a box, and shake, it doesn't matter where they come out, it is all equal. For every choice and function there is a skirt.

Peter v.
PS by talking and answering, it keeps your mind active, and you learn to better explain certain situations.
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[Emerald Witch]

I have worn all the "prettiest" skirts and dresses I could find in private. I love the way it feels, but at the same time time, I feel rediculous and that translates to thinking I look rediculous.

You know, I actually felt the exact same way the first time I started wearing skirts. I used to buy beautiful things to wear in private, (jewelery, makeup, gorgeous dresses, etc.) but I would only treat them as costumes that I would wear for a few minutes just to amuse myself with, then remove them before going out in public, wearing the dowdiest clothing imaginable. Publicly I dressed in clothing I bought in the menswear department for heaven's sake, and I'm a GIRL! I just didn't believe I deserved to look the way I pranced around my apartment looking. I thought everyone would laugh at me and call me a crow in borrowed plumage.

Then one day I discovered Eddie Izzard, a famous comedian whose real-life taste for wearing women's clothing and makeup is well known, and who makes no bones about displaying his style onstage. I learned a lot from him, both about style and especially about courage. I decided that if he had the guts to do what he dared, then why shouldn't I?

After that I began wearing the most beautiful clothing and jewelery I could every single day. It took me a while to get used to it. I really felt like a fraud at first. I was afraid people would point and laugh, or stare and tell me to go home and change. I actually thought everyone would think I was an ugly girl trying to get away with pretending she was pretty.

As it turned out, nobody said anything (or at least not anything negative). People were actually quite sweet to me, and continue to be. But I still have times when I feel like a fraud, even though I know that as a female wearing skirts one would think it would be the easiest thing in the world for me to feel at ease with the idea of being beautiful and comfortable in a skirt. It's the ordinary way of society, right? But we all have our own mental blocks.

So I do understand where you're coming from, at least to some degree. I continue to read this board, and get an inexpressible amount of support from it's members. Hearing them extol the virtues of skirts sometimes keeps me excited about them when I would otherwise tend to drift back to the mediocrity of jeans. I confess that on the whole, wearing skirts has changed my perception of myself, and given me a boost of confidence.

I can't say how wearing skirts might affect you, because I really don't know how you feel about them deep inside. I know that when I wear skirts (the RIGHT kind of skirt for me, that is) I feel like I'm bringing out more of who I really am than when I'm just wearing jeans. I still have the option of jeans sometimes, but find I choose that option less and less, for various reasons.

I'd like to share the biggest thing that changed the way I shopped for clothes. Having no money but wanting to buy a new wardrobe, I learned that my local thrift store had "dollar tag days" every Monday. Any article of clothing that had been there more than a month (as indicated by it's color tag) was reduced in price to a dollar. Probably your local thrift store has similar bargains if you ask. My method was to swoop in, grab everything that was the correct size regardless whether I thought it was going to be attractive on me or not, and try it on. I figured for only a dollar, how could I go far wrong? The beauty of the system was that I quit pre-judging what would look good on me at the rack and actually TRIED ON lots of stuff I would normally have imagined I couldn't possibly wear. I tried on colors and styles I had always avoided in the past, and found out that things looked fantastic on me that I never would have guessed. Now I get compliments all the time.

Anyway, I guess what I would recommend is to keep exploring whatever your personal passion is. Find out what makes you excited. Follow that, and have fun, and you'll never be too far off! And if you are, hey -- at least you had fun!

[DavidsSkirts]

Personally, I simply want to have skirts and 'skirt-like garments' available as an acceptable choice alongside of, and as an alternative to, shorts/pants/trousers - I don't want to dress like a woman, I don't want to appear too "femme" - and as such I can't say that I would particularly envy what women are wearing...


I like skirts because they are cooler, airier, comfortable, and often more practical; and at the same time I prefer to maintain a masculine appearance/persona - wearing a skirt as a man, so that the 'skirt like garment' would then become a man's skirt, due to the fact that it is being worn by a man..


I like and support the concept of, and philosophy behind, "Fashion Freedom" : That everybody - men and women - should have the right to wear whatever they like {or not - I also support the idea of more public nudity too, but that's a different issue, for a different time and forum..}, giving due regard to social, cultural and safety/practical needs, in their own time.


As one person wrote here, (on Tom's Cafe..) a couple years back :
"If I wanted to dress like a woman, I would wear blue jeans..".