skirtcafe.org

I didn't post that, Coder.
Personally, turning away is jut not an option sometimes.
Steve.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Sun May 04, 2025 7:55 pm I didn't post that, Coder.
Personally, turning away is jut not an option sometimes.
Steve.

True, I think he might have accidentally tagged you in the quote. Perhaps a mod can fix it.

However, regarding "turning away", that is also true, there are indeed situations where there seems to be a duty to intervene. I try to follow the following personal guidelines, in this particular order before I get involved:

1) Is it likely for someone to get physically hurt, or is someone currently being physically hurt?
Yes: Intervene, the method of intervention will vary from a case by case basis.
No: Move to question 2:
2) Is this any of my business (will it effect me in any way, shape, or form)?
Yes: Intervene, same as above.
No: Move along.

I fail at this often, but setting a goal yields its own rewards at any rate.

Sorry for the misquote - fixed.

crfriend wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 1:48 pm

RichardA wrote: ↑Thu Apr 24, 2025 11:40 am

Last week, the UK Supreme Court ruled that the legal definition of a woman should be based on biological sex under equalities law, meaning, for instance, that transgender women, who are biologically male but identify as women, can be excluded from women-only spaces.

Well, folks will classify, judge, and label you the way that the see fit, and there's precious little we can do about it. The only problem is that we get misjudged by some misfit with a chip on his shoulder, and then it could get nasty -- especially in lesser-developed countries.

Since we're not trying to be accepted as women and we're not trying to deceive, though, technically we should not run foul of the law.

I WISH it was that simple and "technically" it is. The court just clarified a law although a couple of trans friends (post surgery with the certificate in question) reasonably believed they were now female in law, which they are not. Thats devastating for them but I'm not one of them.

Joe public here can have no clue who is trans, has a sex change, crossdressing to invade womens spaces, crossdressing for the thrill of it, or just a man stretching boundaries like women always have. I've been pretty fearless wearing skirts and dresses with due regard to appropriate style for a male body, but even I am wondering if perceptions will change again in light of this.

Bits of men and women are interchangable. It is a fact of life that before birth the direction of the human is altered, both having started from the same point. We are all human. We are not different species.
It does not matter how you dress or how you behave and it should not matter to anyome else.
Social media aside. If you fully dress and act as a female then probably nobody apart from a few bigots will bat an eye. If you identify as male then absolutely zero men will care if you use their bathroom. Its all a load of nonsense being pushed by bigoted fools.
Sense will prevail.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 6:20 am If you fully dress and act as a female then probably nobody apart from a few bigots will bat an eye. If you identify as male then absolutely zero men will care if you use their bathroom. Its all a load of nonsense being pushed by bigoted fools.
Sense will prevail.

Wow BM, such optimistic talk, I kind of envy it.
I recently encountered 2 trans women in a professional capacity, one of whom, I have known for more than a decade.
She is a "woman" in appearance, mannerism and only under close scrutiny, shows any vestigial masculinity.
My recent acquaintance, on the other hand, is undoubtedly AGAB and without more drastic changes the certificate is quite ineffective.
Ironically, the one already experiencing harassment is my old friend.
As you are well aware, bigoted fools come in all shapes, sizes and genders and they inhabit all aspects of our lives, even family!
I'll say again "YOU" don't get a choice, the label is in the hands of the person who applies it.
Sad but oh so very true!
As for "sense" prevailing, past history of the human race doesn't instil confidence either.
Steve.

What you think about, you bring about. Negativity has no use, so be positive and bring it about.

What about your AGAB friend? Assigned Gender At Birth. Ie neither AMAB or AFAB.

I do get a choice in labels. If somebody chooses to label me to my face then they can take it up with me directly and i can reply directly to them and put them straight. If they label me behind my back then it's no concern of mine.

Agreed, human history doesn't bode well but life has changed for most non typical people. MIS are at the end of the queue though.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 10:31 am What you think about, you bring about. Negativity has no use, so be positive and bring it about.

BM, I'll agree with that on the day that every guy that wants to can wear what he wants, wherever and whenever he chooses without fear of any repercussions of any kind from anyone.
Sadly, until that happens, optimism and positive mental attitude will only take us so far.
Personal negativity does not cause most of the problems which men in skirts face, others are only too willing to do that for us.
Steve.

The "Gender Critical Lobby" made blanket statements that might not be true.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 5:52 am The review of the law in the High Court was brought about by the Gender Critical lobby. The aims of the gender critical lobby were published by Taylor and Francis who one the worlds leading academic publishers. T&F are not some random "fake news' outlet.
Here is a summary then of the gender critical lobby view:

.
.
.
Hormone replacement therapy is dangerous: Opposition to hormone administration to children and adults, citing unverified studies and purported side effects
.
.
.

In my case hormone replacement therapy has really improved my health and well being. In my case, I take injectable estradiol valerate, a type of estrogen. I no longer drink to excess and I am a lot calmer. To make it clear, I still identify as a man and not a transgender woman.

John

JohnH wrote: ↑Fri May 16, 2025 8:05 pm The "Gender Critical Lobby" made blanket statements that might not be true.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Fri Apr 25, 2025 5:52 am The review of the law in the High Court was brought about by the Gender Critical lobby. The aims of the gender critical lobby were published by Taylor and Francis who one the worlds leading academic publishers. T&F are not some random "fake news' outlet.
Here is a summary then of the gender critical lobby view:

.
.
.
Hormone replacement therapy is dangerous: Opposition to hormone administration to children and adults, citing unverified studies and purported side effects
.
.
.

In my case hormone replacement therapy has really improved my health and well being. In my case, I take injectable estradiol valerate, a type of estrogen. I no longer drink to excess and I am a lot calmer. To make it clear, I still identify as a man and not a transgender woman.

John

John it's your choice to take estrogen, i make no judgments and neither should anyone else. You dont need to identify as anything you can just be you. I have read that some men have have low estrogen levels and low doses are sometimes needed to regulate some body functions. Higher doses will however have a feminising effect. Eg increased breast tissue, softer skin, thinning facial hair and testicular atrophy.

All drugs have side effects. Some are only seen long term, like liver and kidney damage from excess use of certain over the counter drugs. The COVID shots caused all sorts of issues from reproductive problems to heart damage. Ritalin has been shown to stunt kids' growth by a full inch. And every drug pulled from the market that they are now paying out compensation for, was once approved.

In the case of hormone therapy, there are things like bone density loss. Then there are the sexual, physiological, and psychological effects which could be considered features or bugs, depending on your view. Long term effects on major organs like the heart are still being studied, but are more important the younger the patient.

Are doctors actually discussing this stuff with their patients? It's been a mixed bag for me whether my doctor tells me about the side effects of more mundane and well understood drugs I've been on. We don't really have long term studies on some of this stuff, but doctors are still quick to prescribe...

Barleymower wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 6:20 am If you fully dress and act as a female then probably nobody apart from a few bigots will bat an eye. If you identify as male then absolutely zero men will care if you use their bathroom. Its all a load of nonsense being pushed by bigoted fools.
Sense will prevail.

The trouble is that, following the Supreme Court ruling, my 2 trans-women friends with GRCs (and at least some surgery) can no longer legally use women's bathrooms, changing rooms etc. They are now obliged to e.g. change in the men's changing room at a sports venue. To paraphrase one of them "I now have to go into the men's changing room to remove my dress and tights when changing". I can imaging that causing some consternation to say the least...

MrSoapsud wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 2:55 pm

Barleymower wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 6:20 am If you fully dress and act as a female then probably nobody apart from a few bigots will bat an eye. If you identify as male then absolutely zero men will care if you use their bathroom. Its all a load of nonsense being pushed by bigoted fools.
Sense will prevail.

The trouble is that, following the Supreme Court ruling, my 2 trans-women friends with GRCs (and at least some surgery) can no longer legally use women's bathrooms, changing rooms etc. They are now obliged to e.g. change in the men's changing room at a sports venue. To paraphrase one of them "I now have to go into the men's changing room to remove my dress and tights when changing". I can imaging that causing some consternation to say the least...

I was referring to the use of communal / public toilets.
However MrS your friends have my complete sympathy. It's a ridiculous situation. There is support out there. The company i work for has put out a notice in support of trans employee's. It has said that everyone should stand by trans colleagues regarding this ruling. Trans colleagues should use the facility in which they feel most comfortable.
Why anyone would undergo transition only to attack women in changing rooms is beyond belief.

Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 3:23 pmWhy anyone would undergo transition only to attack women in changing rooms is beyond belief.

The quick answer is that nobody actually does this.

This is a good example of what's called a canard in rhetoric; it's used as a distractor -- a red herring -- to get the audience to stop thinking about the real problem and to concentrate on what the speaker wishes to drive home. Don't rise to the bait and get sucked into the madness.

crfriend wrote: ↑Sun May 18, 2025 2:35 pm

Barleymower wrote: ↑Sat May 17, 2025 3:23 pmWhy anyone would undergo transition only to attack women in changing rooms is beyond belief.

The quick answer is that nobody actually does this.

This is a good example of what's called a canard in rhetoric; it's used as a distractor -- a red herring -- to get the audience to stop thinking about the real problem and to concentrate on what the speaker wishes to drive home. Don't rise to the bait and get sucked into the madness.

My thoughts exactly Carl. Trouble is people actually fall for it. A lady close to me told me her friend (getting tenuous already) was using the ladies when a man dressed as a women tried to force his was into her cubicle. Of course nothing happened, but it totally happened! Stories like this get believed and and feeds the hysteria.

I will tell you what is true though, I had this gently explained to me by a good women:
Women are fed up with men. Men have bullied women for a very long time and now finally they are breaking free of the bonds of men. They know they can wear whatever they want and men are dressed in drab. They don't care! As far as many women are concerned men done this to themselves. They have no sysmpathy for them.

And yes it is a distractor. It is used by those in control to bait the population and distract them from very serious issues coming their way.